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the G-man said: openly Christian university professors feel a bit out of sorts on the University of Georgia and other American campuses these days.
But it's not universal.
My friend, a Ph. D. molecular geneticist, was pursued by Miami of Ohio, my alma mater, for well over a year. My friend is a Conservative Catholic in the classic tradition of Indiana Republicans. EVERY OTHER PROFESSOR in the Zoology faculty at Miami is Liberal Democrat. Yet they wanted my friend, politics be damned.
Yet they wooed my friend so strongly that he finally couldn't turn them down with all they were offering him (as well as a chance to return to our hometown)...$$, tenure, on-campus perks, sports tickets, etc.
My friend may feel politically "out of sorts," but he's one solid piece of anecdotal evidence that any kind of "discrimination against Conservatives" is either overstated or fairly minor. And he's never expressed one iota of concern about how his politics will mesh with those of his new colleagues.
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Fighting isolated examples with isolated examples is a surefire way to settle an argument... over the span of years.
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Fighting isolated examples with isolated examples proves that you can find isolated examples of just about any kind of human behavior, good or bad.
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From Diversity at Princeton:
Princeton’s Middle East battle is quieter than Columbia’s, but in a way it’s no less important. At its center is Michael Doran, an assistant professor and protégé of Bernard Lewis who teaches the modern politics of the region in the university’s Near Eastern Studies department.
Last spring, Doran was up for tenure, but the university chose to defer his consideration because he was invited to serve as the chairman of a new program at Brandeis. (He declined the offer.)
Doran is well-credentialed. His students rave about his classes, and Middle East experts outside of the American academy — such as Kramer and the Shalem Center’s Michael Oren, author of Six Days of War — speak highly of him. (Kramer and Oren, like Doran, studied at Princeton. Oren calls Doran “a gift to the field.”) He’s written widely noted articles in Foreign Affairs and other popular publications, and has served as a consultant to the U.S. government on matters Middle Eastern.
He also happens to be politically to the right — and unapologetic about it. In a field dominated by anti-Western dogmatism, Doran stands out for his political inclinations, his unusual analyses (particularly for a Middle East scholar these days), and his popularity. It’s hardly shocking that some professors, likely guided by both politics and jealousy, would hope to prevent his further rise
The fact that he is not only a serious and right-leaning scholar but also a popular and influential one means that, if he sticks around, Princeton will be even less likely to succumb to trendy approaches in lieu of rigorous scholarship. As Martin Kramer puts it, "The attack on [Doran] comes from the very far-left 'popular front' that has squelched diversity in Middle Eastern studies for the last 20 years. They'd like every place to be a Columbia or NYU or Berkeley — they regard the existence of even one pocket of diversity as a mortal threat." (Columbia professor Rashid Khalidi's recent decision to apply for a position at Princeton's Transregional Institute suggests the battle may have just been ratcheted up a notch.)
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I just came across this, and thought it might be interesting. The subtitle of “crybaby conservatives” is too inflammatory for my liking, but the actual article is interesting and possibly valid points are made in between the assaults, if you’re willing to read them. So read it carefully. It's kinda long, but I'd rather post a complete article so that nothing is taken out of contest.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050404&c=1&s=jacoby
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The New PC
Crybaby Conservatives
by Russell Jacoby
The Yale student did not like what he heard. Sociologists derided religion and economists damned corporations. One professor pre-emptively rejected the suggestion that "workers on public relief be denied the franchise." "I propose, simply, to expose," wrote the young author in a booklong denunciation, one of "the most extraordinary incongruities of our time. Under the "protective label 'academic freedom,'" the institution that derives its "moral and financial support from Christian individualists then addresses itself to the task of persuading the sons of these supporters to be atheistic socialists."
For William F. Buckley Jr., author of the 1951 polemic God and Man at Yale: The Superstitions of "Academic Freedom" and a founder of modern American conservatism, the solution to this scandal was straightforward: Fire the wanton professors. No freedom would be abridged. The socialist professor could "seek employment at a college that was interested in propagating socialism." None around? No problem. The market has spoken. The good professor can retool or move on.
Buckley's book can be situated as a salvo in the McCarthyite attack on the universities. Indeed, even as a Yale student, Buckley maintained cordial relationships with New Haven FBI agents, and at the time of the book's publication he worked for the CIA. Buckley was neither the first nor the last to charge that teachers were misleading or corrupting students. At the birth of Western culture, a teacher called Socrates was executed for filling "young people's heads with the wrong ideas." In the twentieth century, clamor about subversive American professors has come in waves, cresting around World War I, in the late 1940s and early 1950s, and today. The earlier assaults can be partially explained by the political situation. Authorities descended upon professors who questioned America's entry into World War I, sympathized with the new Russian Revolution or inclined toward communism during the cold war.
Today the situation is different. The fear during the cold war, however trumped up, that professors served America's enemies could claim a patina of plausibility insofar as some teachers identified themselves as communists or socialists. With communism dead, leftism moribund and liberalism wounded, the fear of international subversion no longer threatens. Even the most rabid critics do not accuse professors of being on the payroll of Al Qaeda or other Islamist extremists. Moreover, conservatives command the presidency, Congress, the courts, major news outlets and the majority of corporations; they appear to have the country comfortably in their pocket. What fuels their rage, then? What fuels the persistent charges that professors are misleading the young?
A few factors might be adduced, but none are completely convincing. One is the age-old anti-intellectualism of conservatives. Conservatives distrust unregulated intellectuals. Forty years ago McCarthyism spurred Richard Hofstadter to write his classic Anti-Intellectualism in American Life. In addition, a basic insecurity plagues conservatives today, a fear that their reign will be short or a gnawing doubt about their legitimacy. Dissenting voices cannot be tolerated, because they imply that a conservative future may not last forever. One Noam Chomsky is one too many. Angst besets the triumphant conservatives. Those who purge Darwin from America's schools must yell in order to drown out their own misgivings, the inchoate realization that they are barking at the moon.
Today's accusations against subversive professors differ from those of the past in several respects. In a sign of the times, the test for disloyalty has shifted far toward the center. Once an unreliable professor meant an anarchist or communist; now it includes Democrats. Soon it will be anyone to the left of Attila the Hun. Second, the charges do not (so far) come from government committees investigating un-American activities but from conservative commentators and their student minions. A series of groups such as Campus Watch, Academic Bias and Students for Academic Freedom enlist students to monitor and publicize professorial conduct. Third, the new charges are advanced not against but in the name of academic freedom or a variant of it; and, in the final twist, the new conservative critics seem driven by an ethos that they have adopted from liberalism: affirmative action and a sense of victimhood, which they officially detest.
Conservatives complain relentlessly that they do not get a fair shake in the university, and they want parity--that is, more conservatives on faculties. Conservatives are lonely on American campuses as well as beleaguered and misunderstood. News that tenured poets vote Democratic or that Kerry received far more money from professors than Bush pains them. They want America's faculties to reflect America's political composition. Of course, they do not address such imbalances in the police force, Pentagon, FBI, CIA and other government outfits where the stakes seem far higher and where, presumably, followers of Michael Moore are in short supply. If life were a big game of Monopoly, one might suggest a trade to these conservatives: You give us one Pentagon, one Department of State, Justice and Education, plus throw in the Supreme Court, and we will give you every damned English department you want.
Conservatives claim that studies show an outrageous number of liberals on university faculties and increasing political indoctrination or harassment of conservative students. In fact, only a very few studies have been made, and each is transparently limited or flawed. The most publicized investigations amateurishly correlate faculty departmental directories with local voter registration lists to show a heavy preponderance of Democrats. What this demonstrates about campus life and politics is unclear. Yet these findings are endlessly cited and cross-referenced as if by now they confirm a tiresome truth: leftist domination of the universities. A column by George Will affects a world-weariness in commenting on a recent report. "The great secret is out: Liberals dominate campuses. Coming soon: 'Moon Implicated in Tides, Studies Find.'"
The most careful study is "How Politically Diverse Are the Social Sciences and Humanities?" Conducted by California economist Daniel Klein and Swedish social scientist Charlotta Stern, it has been trumpeted by many conservatives as a corrective to the hit-and-miss efforts of previous inquiries by going directly to the source. The researchers sent out almost 5,500 questionnaires to professors in six disciplines in order to tabulate their political orientation. A whopping 70 percent of the recipients did what any normal person would do when receiving an unsolicited fourteen-page survey over the signature of an assistant dean at a small California business school: They tossed it. With just 17 percent of their initial pool remaining after the researchers made additional exclusions, some unastounding findings emerged. Thirty times as many anthropologists voted Democratic as voted Republican; for sociologists the ratio was almost the same. For economists, however, it sank to three to one. On average these professors voted Democratic over Republican fifteen to one.
What does it show that fifty-four philosophy professors admitted to voting Democratic regularly and only four to voting Republican? Does a Democratic vote reveal a dangerous philosophical or campus leftism? Are Democrats more likely to deceive students? Proselytize them? Harass them? Steal library books? Must they be neutralized by Republican professors, who are free of these vices? This study opens by quoting the conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks on the loneliness of campus conservatives and closes by bemoaning the "one-party system" of faculties. Nonleftist voices are "muffled and fearful," the researchers say. They do not, however, present a scintilla of information to confirm this. It is not a minor point. No matter how well tuned, studies of professorial voting habits reveal nothing of campus policies or practices.
The notion that faculties should politically mirror the US population derives from an affirmative action argument about the underrepresentation of African-Americans, Latinos or women in certain areas. Conservatives now add political orientation, based on voting behavior, to the mix. "In the U.S. population in general, Left and Right are roughly equal (1 to 1)," Klein and Stern lecture us, but in social science and humanities faculties "clearly the non-Left points of view have been marginalized." This is "clearly" not true, or at least it is not obvious what constitutes a "non-Left" point of view in art history or linguistics. In any event, why stop with left and right? Why not add religion to the underrepresentation violation? Perhaps Klein, the lead researcher, should explore Jewish and Christian affiliation among professors. A survey would probably show that Jews, 1.3 percent of the population, are seriously overrepresented in economics and sociology (as well as other fields). Isn't it likely that Jews marginalize Christianity in their classes? Shouldn't this be corrected? Shouldn't 76 percent of American faculty be Christian?
The Klein study and others like it focus on the humanities and social sciences. Conservatives seem little interested in exploring the political orientation of engineering professors or biogeneticists. The more important the field, in terms of money, resources and political clout, the less conservatives seem exercised by it. At many universities the medical and science buildings, to say nothing of the business faculties or the sports complexes, tower over the humanities. I teach at UCLA. The history professors are housed in cramped quarters of a decaying Modernist structure. Our classiest facility is a conference room that could pass as generic space in any downtown motel. The English professors inhabit what appears to be an aging elementary school outfitted with minuscule offices. A hop away is a different world. The UCLA Anderson School of Management boasts its own spanking-new buildings, plush seminar rooms, spacious lecture halls with luxurious seats, an "executive dining room" and--gold in California--reserved parking facilities. Conservatives seem unconcerned about the political orientation of the business professors. Shouldn't half be Democrats and at least a few be Trotskyists?
Another recent study heralded as proving leftist campus domination was sponsored by the conservative American Council of Trustees and Alumni; it sought to document not the political orientation of professors but, more decisively, the political intimidation of students by faculty. Claiming an "error rate of plus or minus four," the sponsors assert that their study demonstrates widespread indoctrination, that almost 50 percent of students report that professors "use the classroom to present their personal political views." According to the sponsor, "The ACTA survey clearly shows that faculty are injecting politics into the classroom in ways that students believe infringe upon their freedom to learn."
Closer examination of the study reveals dubious methodology. Most questions were asked in a way that nearly dictated one answer. Students were asked if they "somewhat agree" that "some" professors did this or that. A key statement ran: "On my campus, some professors use the classroom to present their personal political views." And the possible responses ran from "Strongly agree" and "Somewhat agree" to "Somewhat disagree" and "Strongly disagree." Of the 658 students polled, 10 percent answered "Strongly agree" and 36 percent "Somewhat agree," which yields the almost 50 percent figure that appeared in headlines claiming half of American students are subject to political indoctrination.
Yet the statement is too imprecise to negate. Asked whether "some" professors on campus--somewhere or sometime--interject extraneous politics, most students (36 percent) respond that they "Somewhat agree." That is the intelligent and safe answer: "somewhat" agreeing that "some" professors misuse politics. To partially or even completely negate the statement would imply that no professors ever mishandled politics. Yet a vague assent to a vague assertion only yields twice as much vagueness. The statement does not so much inquire whether the student him- or herself directly experienced professors misusing politics, which might be more revealing. Yet these murky findings are heralded as proof of campus totalitarianism.
These scattered studies are only part of the story. A series of articles, books and organizations have taken up the cause of leftist campus domination. An outfit called Students for Academic Freedom, with the credo "You can't get a good education if they're only telling you half the story," is sponsored by the conservative activist David Horowitz and boasts 150 campus chapters. It monitors slights, insults and occasionally more serious infractions that students suffer or believe they suffer. The organization provides an online "complaint" form, where disgruntled students check a category such as "Mocked national political or religious figures" (mocking local figures is presumably acceptable) or "Required readings or texts covering only one side of issues" and then provide details.
At the organization's website the interested visitor can keep abreast of the latest outrages as well as troll through hundreds of complaints in the Academic Freedom Complaint Center. Most listings concern professors' comments that supposedly malign patriotic or family values; for instance, under "Introduced Controversial Material" a student complained that in a lecture on Reconstruction the professor noted how much he disliked Bush and the Iraq War. A very few complaints raise more serious issues, and some of these are pursued by other Horowitz publications or are seized on by conservative columnists and sometimes by the national news services. A Kuwaiti student who defends the Iraq War recounts that he fell afoul of a leftist professor in a government class, who directed him to seek psychological counseling. "Apparently, if you are an Arab Muslim who loves America you must be deranged." To his credit, Horowitz's online journal also ran a story from the same college about a student who was penalized after he defended abortion in an ethics class conducted by a strident prolifer [for background on Horowitz, see Scott Sherman, "David Horowitz's Long March," July 3, 2000].
Virtually all "cases" reported to the Academic Freedom Abuse Center deal with leftist political comments or leftist assigned readings. To use the idiom of right-wing commentators, we see here the emergence of crybaby conservatives, who demand a judicial remedy, guaranteed safety and representation. Convinced that conservatives are mistreated on American campuses, Horowitz has championed a solution, a bill detailing "academic freedom" of students; the proposed law has already been introduced in several state legislatures. Until recently, if the notion of academic freedom for students had any currency, it referred to their right to profess and publish ideas on and off campus.
Horowitz takes the traditional academic freedom that insulated professors from political interference and extends it to students. As a former leftist, Horowitz has the gift of borrowing from the enemy. His "academic bill of rights" talks the language of diversity; it insists that students need to hear all sides and it refashions a "political correctness" for conservatives, who, it turns out, are at least as prickly as any other group when it comes to perceived slights. After years of decrying the "political correctness police," thin-skinned conservatives have joined in; they want their own ideological wardens to enforce intellectual conformity.
hile some propositions of the academic bill of rights are unimpeachable (for example, students should not be graded "on the basis of their political or religious beliefs"), academic freedom extended to students easily turns it into the end of freedom for teachers. In a rights society students have the right to hear all sides of all subjects all the time. "Curricula and reading lists," says principle number four of Horowitz's academic bill of rights, "should reflect the uncertainty and unsettled character of all human knowledge" and provide "students with dissenting sources and viewpoints where appropriate."
"Where appropriate" is the kicker, but the consequences for teachers are clear enough from perusing the "abuses" that Students for Academic Freedom lists or that Horowitz plays up in his columns. For instance, Horowitz lambastes a course called Modern Industrial Societies, which uses as its sole text a 500-page leftist anthology, Modernity: An Introduction to Modern Societies. This is a benign book published by a mainstream press, yet under the academic bill of rights the professor could be hauled before authorities to explain such a flagrant violation. If not fired, he or she could be commanded to assign a 500-page anthology published by the Free Enterprise Institute. Another "abuse" occurred in an introductory class, Peace Studies and Conflict Resolution, where military approaches were derided. A student complained that "the only studying of conflict resolution that we did was to enforce the idea that non-violent means were the only legitimate sources of self-defense." This was "indoctrination," not education. Presumably the professor of "peace studies" should be ordered to give equal time to "war studies." By this principle, should the United States Army War College be required to teach pacifism?
In the name of intellectual diversity and students' rights, many courses could be challenged. A course on Freud would have to include anti-Freudians; a course on religion, atheists; a course on mysticism, the rationalists. The academic bill of rights seeks to impose some limits by restricting diversity to "significant scholarly viewpoints." Yet this is a porous shield. Once the right to decide the content of courses is extended to students, the Holocaust deniers, creationists and conspiracy addicts will come knocking at the door--and indeed they already have.
The bill of rights for students and the allied conservative watchdog groups that monitor lectures and book assignments represent the reinvention of the old un-American activities committees in the age of diversity and rights. The witch hunt has become democratized. Students for Academic Freedom counsels its members that when they come across an "abuse" like "controversial material" in a course, they should "write down the date, class and name of the professor," "accumulate a list of incidents or quotes," obtain witnesses and lodge a complaint. Rights are supposed to preserve freedoms, but here the opposite would occur. Professors would become more claustrophobic and cautious. They would offer fewer "controversial" ideas. Assignments would become blander.
More leftists undoubtedly inhabit institutions of higher education than they do the FBI or the Pentagon or local police and fire departments, about which conservatives seem little concerned, but who or what says every corner of society should reflect the composition of the nation at large? Nothing has shown that higher education discriminates against conservatives, who probably apply in smaller numbers than liberals. Conservatives who pursue higher degrees may prefer to slog away as junior partners in law offices rather than as assistant professors in English departments. Does an "overrepresentation" of Democratic anthropologists mean Republican anthropologists have been shunted aside? Does an "overrepresentation" of Jewish lawyers and doctors mean non-Jews have been excluded?
Higher education in America is a vast enterprise boasting roughly a million professors. A certain portion of these teachers are incompetents and frauds; some are rabid patriots and fundamentalists--and some are ham-fisted leftists. All should be upbraided if they violate scholarly or teaching norms. At the same time, a certain portion of the 15 million students they teach are fanatics and crusaders. The effort, in the name of rights, to shift decisions about lectures and assignments from professors to students marks a backward step: the emergence of the thought police on skateboards. At its best, education is inherently controversial and tendentious. While this truth can serve as an excuse for gross violations, the remedy for unbalanced speech is not less speech but more. If college students can vote and go to war, they can also protest or drop courses without enlisting the new commissars of intellectual diversity.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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G-Man, you gonna send your kids to college?
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Darknight, did you send G-Man a private message of "here it comes" or "stand by for news" before you posted that article? As if the article were some weapon in an ideological and personal war??
Just wondering if G-Man was the only one who engaged in such childish nonsense.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
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Jim Jackson said:
G-Man, you gonna send your kids to college?
There are far right colleges you know. Bob Jones University for one. Where they can boast that just recently did they join the age of Enlightenment and allowed little black boys to hold the hands of little white girls.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
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I just thought it a good question to post to G-Man, who appears to be operating on something akin to a crusade against Liberalism in the Universities.
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I think the idea of having right-wing creationist paleontologists and geologists who would approach their fields with the prejudiced viewpoint of the earth being 6000 years old and devoid of dinousaurs to be the stuff of a potentially decent SNL skit.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
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Quote:
PaulWellr said: Darknight, did you send G-Man a private message of "here it comes" or "stand by for news" before you posted that article? As if the article were some weapon in an ideological and personal war??
No. I don't use articles or information as weapons, and I don't engage in ideaological warfare.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Quote:
PaulWellr said:
Darknight, did you send G-Man a private message of "here it comes" or "stand by for news" before you posted that article? As if the article were some weapon in an ideological and personal war??
No. I don't use articles or information as weapons, and I don't engage in ideaological warfare.
That's very big and mature of you.
Of course though now I realize it was an unfair question. I'd be more appropriate to ask Wednesday if he behaves like that, seeing he's the lib moderator to G-Man's con.
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." - George W. Bush State of the Union speech Jan 28, 2003
"mission accomplished" - George W. Bush May 2, 2003
It does not require a majority to prevail but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brushfires in peoples minds". Samuel Adams said that. Pretty deep for a guy that makes beer for a living - The Boondocks
"A conservative is one who admires radicals centuries after they're dead" - Leo C. Rosten
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Quote:
PaulWellr said:
Quote:
Darknight613 said:
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PaulWellr said: Darknight, did you send G-Man a private message of "here it comes" or "stand by for news" before you posted that article? As if the article were some weapon in an ideological and personal war??
No. I don't use articles or information as weapons, and I don't engage in ideaological warfare.
That's very big and mature of you.
Of course though now I realize it was an unfair question. I'd be more appropriate to ask Wednesday if he behaves like that, seeing he's the lib moderator to G-Man's con.
Y'know there ARE people who may be able to make a decent case against G for demonizing the opposition, but you aren't one of them.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
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Quote:
PaulWellr said: Darknight, did you send G-Man a private message of "here it comes" or "stand by for news" before you posted that article? As if the article were some weapon in an ideological and personal war??
Just wondering if G-Man was the only one who engaged in such childish nonsense.
Oh and if G-Man does that before posting articles, that's pretty funny. It also implies that he WANTS both sides represented in the thread.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
" I know God exists because WBAM told me so. " - theory9
JLA brand RACK points = 514k
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said: G-Man, you gonna send your kids to college?
Yeah, my oldest goes next year.
Which one might argue makes me a "customer" and, therefore, someone who has as much right to bitch about what I see as a problem with the "product" or "service" as any other customer.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said: Oh and if G-Man does that before posting articles, that's pretty funny. It also implies that he WANTS both sides represented in the thread.
Yeah, in fact, I actually have PM'd people on the left in the past and ASKED for thread topics that are from a liberal, if thoughtful, perspective.
I'm not sure why Paul is so PO'd that I actually warned him I was going to post something that contradicted his points. But perhaps that's another topic.
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We already are 15000+ posts
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said: G-Man, you gonna send your kids to college?
Yeah, my oldest goes next year.
Which one might argue makes me a "customer" and, therefore, someone who has as much right to bitch about what I see as a problem with the "product" or "service" as any other customer.
I have seen some ugly episodes from liberal profs......it will probably be my biggest concern (that and paying for the shit) when my kids go to college.
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Quote:
PaulWellr said: I think the idea of having right-wing creationist paleontologists and geologists who would approach their fields with the prejudiced viewpoint of the earth being 6000 years old and devoid of dinousaurs to be the stuff of a potentially decent SNL skit.
I agree.
But that's a completely simplistic view of the type of "conservative" thought that could, and should, be allowed at universities and apparently isn't.
There is legitimate conservative thought in the areas of ecnomics, politics, etc., that apparently-at least according to the examples cited in this thread-is being given the short shrift simply due to idealogical biases and a prejudiced viewpoint amoungst the tenured faculty.
And, of course, there's this question: How, for example, is the scenario you just made up any more bigoted and ignorant than left wing poli-sci professors who approach their fields with the prejudiced viewpoint that Soviet style communisim got a bad rap or that the victims of 9/11 were "little Eichmanns" who deserved to die for the US's alleged "sins"?
Answer: it isn't. And that's why this is an issue.
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PaulWellr said: I think the idea of having right-wing creationist paleontologists and geologists who would approach their fields with the prejudiced viewpoint of the earth being 6000 years old and devoid of dinousaurs to be the stuff of a potentially decent SNL skit.
It'd be even more worthy if this statement itself wasn't prejuidiced (not to mention ignorant).
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Animalman said:
I think the stereotype that all universities are liberal is complete bullshit
Even the Washington Post appears to disagree:
College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have imagined, a new study says.
By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative, says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as Republicans.
The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where, according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent are conservative.
"What's most striking is how few conservatives there are in any field," said Robert Lichter, a professor at George Mason University and a co-author of the study. "There was no field we studied in which there were more conservatives than liberals or more Republicans than Democrats. It's a very homogenous environment, not just in the places you'd expect to be dominated by liberals."
The findings, by Lichter and fellow political science professors Stanley Rothman of Smith College and Neil Nevitte of the University of Toronto, are based on a survey of 1,643 full-time faculty at 183 four-year schools. The researchers relied on 1999 data from the North American Academic Study Survey, the most recent comprehensive data available.
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Jim Jackson said:
Show me that *anybody's* discriminating against anybody else. I still don't see it.
Rothman sees the findings as evidence of "possible discrimination" against conservatives in hiring and promotion. Even after factoring in levels of achievement, as measured by published work and organization memberships, "the most likely conclusion" is that "being conservative counts against you," he said. "It doesn't surprise me, because I've observed it happening."
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Jim Jackson said:
Colleges and univserities have historically been Liberal institutions.
Rothman, Lichter and Nevitte find a leftward shift on campus over the past two decades. In the last major survey of college faculty, by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in 1984, 39 percent identified themselves as liberal.
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Jim Jackson said:
My friend, a Ph. D. molecular geneticist, was pursued by Miami of Ohio, my alma mater, for well over a year. My friend is a Conservative Catholic in the classic tradition of Indiana Republicans. EVERY OTHER PROFESSOR in the Zoology faculty at Miami is Liberal Democrat. Yet they wanted my friend, politics be damned.
Yet they wooed my friend so strongly that he finally couldn't turn them down with all they were offering him (as well as a chance to return to our hometown)...$$, tenure, on-campus perks, sports tickets, etc.
My friend may feel politically "out of sorts," but he's one solid piece of anecdotal evidence that any kind of "discrimination against Conservatives" is either overstated or fairly minor. And he's never expressed one iota of concern about how his politics will mesh with those of his new colleagues.
Religious services take a back seat for many faculty members, with 51 percent saying they rarely or never attend church or synagogue and 31 percent calling themselves regular churchgoers. On the gender front, 72 percent of the full-time faculty are male and 28 percent female.
The researchers say that liberals, men and non-regular churchgoers are more likely to be teaching at top schools, while conservatives, women and more religious faculty are more likely to be relegated to lower-tier colleges and universities.
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Darkknight613 said:
If conservatives don't want to be college professors while liberals do, why is that the fault of liberals?
"In general," says Lichter, who also heads the nonprofit Center for Media and Public Affairs, "even broad-minded people gravitate toward other people like themselves. That's why you need diversity, not just of race and gender but also, maybe especially, of ideas and perspective."
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the G-man said:
Quote:
Darkknight613 said: If conservatives don't want to be college professors while liberals do, why is that the fault of liberals?
"In general," says Lichter, who also heads the nonprofit Center for Media and Public Affairs, "even broad-minded people gravitate toward other people like themselves. That's why you need diversity, not just of race and gender but also, maybe especially, of ideas and perspective."
How does that answer my question about whether or not conservatives want to be college professors? Or my question about why is it the fault of liberals that conservatives don't want to be college professors?
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
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The article says (see above) that conservatives want to teach, but are unable to get work.
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the G-man said: The article says (see above) that conservatives want to teach, but are unable to get work.
Maybe it's because you chopped up the article in your initial post, but I couldn't find anything to prove that, even when I went to the link.
Also, a few things to keep in mind.
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The study appears in the March issue of the Forum, an online political science journal. It was funded by the Randolph Foundation, a right-leaning group that has given grants to such conservative organizations as the Independent Women's Forum and Americans for Tax Reform.
I'm sure some people would understand my questioning the validity of research from any group with an apparent slant, left or right.
Also...
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Rothman sees the findings as evidence of "possible discrimination" against conservatives in hiring and promotion. Even after factoring in levels of achievement, as measured by published work and organization memberships, "the most likely conclusion" is that "being conservative counts against you," he said. "It doesn't surprise me, because I've observed it happening." The study, however, describes this finding as "preliminary."
"Possible" and "most likely" as in not 100% certain that's what's going on, and "preliminary" as in the research might not be complete yet.
As for personal observations, can he provide details?
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The researchers say that liberals, men and non-regular churchgoers are more likely to be teaching at top schools, while conservatives, women and more religious faculty are more likely to be relegated to lower-tier colleges and universities.
Relegated by whom, and why? Is there any evidence that proves it's because of political affiliation?
And again, I couldn't find anything about conservatives wanting to be teachers and being denied employment just ebcause of political affiliation. Nor could I find anything to indicate that liberals are being favored over conservatives only based on political affiliation.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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the G-man said: The article says (see above) that conservatives want to teach, but are unable to get work.
Well, I've already provided anecdotal evidence of my very Conservative friend being vigorously pursued for professorial and reserach work at Miami U.
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Perhaps you need to argue for affirmative action for Conservative professors. I'm sure millions will take up the cause...
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Jim Jackson said: Perhaps you need to argue for affirmative action for Conservative professors. I'm sure millions will take up the cause...
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Faculty and students at the University of Toronto titled this open letter: In defense of academic freedom. But read it, and you’ll discover that to these people, “academic freedom” means stopping Daniel Pipes from speaking.
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From Ithaca College comes the news of a professor that calls a student newspaper "racist" for not giving a "tolerance" rally enough coverage: ITHACA, NY—Another college newspaper was stolen and thrown out to protest its “racist” coverage earlier this month. According to published reports, “hundreds” of copies of the April 21 edition of the Ithacan, the official student newspaper of Ithaca College, were stolen and thrown out that evening. One of the thieves was later identified, reports indicate. “She said she had been upset with the paper for …what she saw as the lack of coverage of the Erase the Hate rally,” the Ithacan editors reported. The “Erase the Hate” rally was a billed as a response to a series of “racial slurs” that were written in various places all around Ithaca College earlier in April. “These incidents were preceded by bias-related incidents against Asians, African-Americans and women in February and March,” the Cornell Daily Sun reported.
The student was not the only person on campus who attacked the paper for not giving the rally “sufficient” coverage, the Ithacan noted: One politics professor was described as “ranting and raving,” alleging the paper was “racist” because The Ithacan did not cover the rally in the print edition and instead covered it online. The paper covered the rally online with more than 30 photos so that students could read about the event that day, rather than waiting a full week. Ironically, prior to the newspaper theft, organizers of the “Erase the Hate” rally had reportedly billed the event as a way to “look for solutions to deal with intolerance” on the Ithaca campus.
“Newspaper theft is a crime in New York state. The loss of hundreds of copies means lost printing costs, labor costs and revenue from ads readers never saw. It also robs other students of the opportunity to be informed,” the Ithacan reported.
The same month that hundreds of newspapers were stolen on campus, a single “gay pride” flag was also stolen from a flagpole at Ithaca College. Unlike the theft of the newspapers, the theft of the gay pride flag has generated intense local coverage, both on and off campus, with calls for the perpetrators to be prosecuted.
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Writing in the American Spectator, former Cornell instructor David French describes discrimination, or attempted discrimination, against conservatives and evangelical Christians at an Ivy League law school: We hear a lot these days about the importance of diversity in ensuring that ideas are heard fairly. But the individuals who are most insistent about this are interested only in racial and sex diversity. Intellectual and ideological diversity is not what the enforcers of political correctness on campuses and other sectors have in mind.
...When I applied to teach at Cornell Law School, an interviewer noticed my evangelical background and asked, "How is it possible for you to effectively teach gay students?"
If I had not given what I consider to be, in all modesty, an absolutely brilliant answer to the question, I don't think I would have gotten the job.
I sat in admissions committee meetings at Cornell in which African-American students who expressed conservative points of view were disfavored because "they had not taken ownership of their racial identity."
An evangelical student was almost rejected before I pointed out that the reviewer's statement that "they did not want Bible-thumping or God-squading on campus" was illegal and immoral.
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Admittedly, I don't know if this professor is liberal or not, but I'm willing to hazard a guess...
Top prof sparks outrage, Devout are 'moral retards,' he sez:
A Brooklyn College professor who called religious people "moral retards" was elected to head his department this month - sparking a campus uproar.
E-mails expressing alarm that Timothy Shortell was now chairman of the sociology department circulated among students last week on the school's Midwood campus.
Shortell has written in an online academic publication that the devout "are an ugly, violent lot. In the name of their faith, these moral retards are running around pointing fingers."
"I'm horrified by the ideology of Prof. Shortell," said Eldad Yaron, a Brooklyn College senior.
"This person has control right now on the content of many classes every student will take. Just imagine how fair and balanced these classes will be."
Daniel Tauber, president-elect of the school's student government, said he was worried that Shortell and other faculty members would breed religious intolerance at the diverse college.
"I would like to see professors in high positions who don't believe religious people are moral retards," Tauber said.
Shortell's remarks - which included lines such as "Christians claim that theirs is faith based on love, but they'll just as soon kill you" - elicited a multifaith backlash among university groups.
"He's intolerant," fumed Alex Selsky of the school's Hillel chapter, a Jewish campus organization. "With this kind of unreasonable thinking, I don't know how he can be elected to head of a department."
Kevin Oro-Hahn, director of the school's InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, said he hopes the university can "move beyond mere rhetoric in the pursuit of truth."
A college spokesman said there's little CUNY officials can do.
"Whether one agrees with Dr. Shortell's comments, this is an election as mandated by university guidelines," he said. "His comments are public, but this is the decision of the sociology department."
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The New York Sun says aspiring teachers who attend Brooklyn College in New York are being evaulated based on their politics and a commitment to "social justice." The School of Education at the CUNY campus has initiated a new method of judging teacher candidates based on their "dispositions," a term critics say is being used to judge students based on how closely their political views coincide with those of the teacher. As an example of the potential for abuse, the paper says students in a required language course who challenged assistant professor Priya Parmar's assertion that standard English is the language of oppressors while Ebonics is the language of the oppressed were accused of "bullying" their professor and given lower grades
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A few thoughts on the discussion. Where can the study be found in it's original report form describing sample and analytical methodologies?
If you look at a university that is comprised of of several different colleges you will probably find that liberals predominate in some while conservatives predominate in others. Even within a college the various discaplines attract different sorts of people. Where I went the economics dept. shared a building with sociology and poli sci depts. There was certainly no shortage of conservatives in the economics dept. The sociology students thouhgt of us as jack booted thugs. All of us were part of the School of Social & Behavioral Sciences. The School of Business probably wasn't lacking conservatives either.
Is regular church attendance solely the domain of conservatives? I know many liberals who attend church service quite regularly. The Grand Puubah of conservatives, Ronald Reagan, was not a church goer. I doubt many of the top officials in his administration were either. Someone mentioned it was evangelical Christians that suffered discrimination. The same is not true of mainline denominations and Catholics? They all worship the same dead carpenter from Galalei, don't they?
Passion runs high in university life. The paper was always criticized for being too conservative when I was in school and it seems that hasn't changed. It's a schoolyard after all. Sometimes the kids play rough.
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If you check earlier in the thread, you'll see citations to studies that indicate there are very few conservative professors even within a university that is comprised of of several different colleges with various discaplines.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
If you check earlier in the thread, you'll see citations to studies that indicate there are very few conservative professors even within a university that is comprised of of several different colleges with various discaplines.
well, that's obvious. Oppressing people takes up a lot of time. Do you think Pat Buchanan and Anne Coulter have time to teach?
Bow ties are coool.
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If your theory was accurate, wouldn't Buchanan and Coulter want to teach, given the potential to oppress students, while enjoying a high paying tenured job?
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Quote:
the G-man said: ... As an example of the potential for abuse, the paper says students in a required language course who challenged assistant professor Priya Parmar's assertion that standard English is the language of oppressors while Ebonics is the language of the oppressed were accused of "bullying" their professor and given lower grades
Isn't it possible that the students were bullying their professor?
Fair play!
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Anything's possible, but given the presumed power balance in any teacher student relationship, it would seem highly unlikely
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said: well, that's obvious. Oppressing people takes up a lot of time. Do you think Pat Buchanan and Anne Coulter have time to teach?
Clever.
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