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Seriously, if you want "fair play" in this forum, you should give MeM the ability to frontpage his posts. G-man is practically the only one in this forum capable of doing that, and he's not even a mod. Someone else should be given the same priviledges, and it should be someone as biased as him.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Karl Hungus said:
so you never once criticized Hillary or Chelsea Clinton? And I assume you would condemn Rush Limbaugh for doing so in the 90's.
Hillary is the candidate. I'm sure I've criticized her looks now and then, joking or otherwise.
but if you criticize her looks now, wouldn't you also criticize her looks 10 years ago when she was the candidate's wife.
In general I think insulting looks is in poor taste, especially since we only do it to the women and not the male candidates.
Bow ties are coool.
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Actually, when Bill first ran I thought she was reasonably attractive. Not hot, but okay enough.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Actually, when Bill first ran I thought she was reasonably attractive. Not hot, but okay enough.
so you're saying she looked mannish?
Bow ties are coool.
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A-ROD $TARRING ON RUDY A-TEAMYankees slugger Alex Rodriguez and former Mets star Keith Hernandez agree on a candidate for president - both chipped in to elect Rudy Giuliani, who had a hefty $11 million socked away
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Quote:
Rudy Giuliani’s Lead Drops in Latest Poll
Rudolph Giuliani’s lead over his Republican presidential rivals has dropped, according to a new poll – which also showed ominous results for second-place GOP candidate John McCain.
A late-February Washington Post-ABC News poll gave former New York City Mayor Giuliani 44 percent of the vote among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents. In the new Post-ABC poll, that number has dropped to 33 percent, while Sen. McCain held steady at 21 percent.
...
NewsMax
Over a 10 point drop as people get to know the real Rudy.
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Newsmax? Isn't that one of holden mcgroins fake news sites?
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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GIULIANI BANDWAGON BRANCHES OUT TO ISRAELA group of Israelis has launched a grass-roots effort to get people living in the Jewish state who are eligible to vote in the United States to line up behind Rudy Giuliani, it was reported yesterday.
The group, Giuliani Supporters in Israel, was launched by Mordechai Twersky, a onetime candidate for state Assembly in The Bronx
Twersky has established a web site , with background information including Giuliani's famed eviction of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat from a Lincoln Center concert in 1995.
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Dems Rebuke Giuliani Over Attack Comment By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 3 hours ago WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidates on Wednesday rebuked Republican rival Rudy Giuliani for suggesting that the United States could face another major terrorist attack if a Democrat is elected in 2008. The former New York mayor did not back down. Illinois Sen. Barack Obama said Giuliani, who was in office on Sept. 11, 2001, should not be making the terrorist threat into "the punchline of another political attack." "Rudy Giuliani today has taken the politics of fear to a new low and I believe Americans are ready to reject those kind of politics," Obama said in a statement. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards said Giuliani knows better than to suggest there is a "superior Republican way to fight terrorism." Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said protecting the country from terrorism "shouldn't be a political football." "It should be a solemn responsibility that all of us pledge to fulfill regardless of what party we're in," she said when asked about her fellow New Yorker's comment at a Capitol Hill news conference. Giuliani stood by his comments Wednesday, saying Democrats don't understand the threat posed by terrorists. "They do not seem to get the fact that there are people, terrorists in this world, really dangerous people that want to come here and kill us," Giuliani said on "The Sean Hannity Show," according to a transcript distributed by his campaign. "They want to take us back to not being as alert which to me will just extend this war much, much longer." He was defending his remark Tuesday in New Hampshire, where he echoed sentiments expressed by other Republicans in election time. The former mayor said if a Democrat is elected, "it sounds to me like we're going on defense. We're going to wave the white flag there." But, he said, if a Republican wins, "we will remain on offense" trying to anticipate what the terrorists are going to do and "trying to stop them before they do it." In 2004, President Bush was re-elected after claiming that Democratic Sen. John Kerry would waver in the face of terrorist threats. Vice President Dick Cheney suggested a vote for Kerry would risk another terrorist attack. In the 2006 election, Bush political strategist Karl Rove accused Democrats of clinging to a pre-Sept. 11 mind-set _ but Democrats came out on top in the majority of midterm races. "America's mayor should know that when it comes to 9-11 and fighting terrorists, America is united," Obama said. "We know we can win this war based on shared purpose, not the same divisive politics that question your patriotism if you dare to question failed policies that have made us less secure." Edwards, the 2004 vice presidential nominee making a second run for the White House, said it's wrong to suggest Republicans are better at fighting terror. "The current Republican administration led us into a war in Iraq that has made us less safe and undermined the fight against al-Qaida," Edwards said in a statement. "If that's the Republican way to fight terror, Giuliani should know that the American people are looking for a better plan." The Democratic National Committee accused Giuliani of failing to prepare for the World Trade Center attacks, among other criticisms of his record. "So far Rudy's rhetoric sounds like more of the same failed policies, incompetence and arrogance we've had to suffer for the past six years," said DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney. Another Republican presidential candidate, Arizona Sen. John McCain, wouldn't say whether he agreed with Giuliani's suggestion. "I can't judge whether somebody else would cause an attack on America," McCain told reporters aboard his campaign bus in New Hampshire. New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg, who succeeded Giuliani and also is a potential presidential candidate, said he doesn't see terrorism as a partisan issue. "There are some people I think who would do a better job fighting terrorism than others, but I don't think there's any party affiliations, no partisanship in that," Bloomberg said. ___ Associated Press writers Liz Sidoti in New Hampshire and Sara Kugler in New York contributed to this report. ___ On the Net: http://www.joinrudy2008.com
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Rudy calls it like he sees it. Good man.
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Quote:
Giuliani comes out against civil unions
Michael Roston
Published: Thursday April 26, 2007
Print This Email This
The political website of the New York Sun will report tomorrow that in a major reversal from an earlier position, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani now opposes civil unions between same sex partners.
An advance copy of an article sent to RAW STORY shows that the New York Republican has backed off his earlier support for civil unions, prompted by the passage of a law in New Hampshire's State Senate.
"In this specific case the law states same sex civil unions are the equivalent of marriage and recognizes same sex unions from outside states. This goes too far and Mayor Giuliani does not support it," the Giuliani campaign said in a written response sent to the Sun's Ryan Sager.
The Sun notes that Giuliani had said in 2004 on Fox News, "I'm in favor of...civil unions."
Sager suggests that Giuliani is staking out the position in order to secure himself among charges that he's too liberal to win the Republican vote.
"Yesterday's statement is likely to lead many observers to question whether the former mayor is concerned that his socially liberal record and positions aren't flying in the Republican primary," he writes in a post tomorrow on the New York Sun's Politics website. "While he still holds a commanding lead in the national polls, he has taken a hit over the last month or so after reiterating his support for the public funding of abortion."
An additional excerpt from Sager's article is presented below. You can read the full article at the New York Sun Politics website.
...
RAW
I think we'll be seeing more flip flopping by Rudy as he tries to appeal to the Republican base.
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You just posted an editorial from Raw Story, citing an editorial in the NY Sun. This makes neither source automatically untrue, of course. However, before I decide what this really means, I would like to seen an actual article about this to see why he opposes this particular law. The editorial from Raw Story says "New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani now opposes civil unions between same sex partners", citing the editorial in the Sun. The Sun , however, does not state Rudy is against all civil unions. Instead, the editorial notes, Rudy is against the particular civil union law pending in New Hampshire: Mayor Giuliani came out ... yesterday evening in opposition to the civil union law just passed by the New Hampshire state Senate.
"Mayor Giuliani believes marriage is between one man and one woman. Domestic partnerships are the appropriate way to ensure that people are treated fairly," the Giuliani campaign said
"In this specific case the law states same sex civil unions are the equivalent of marriage and recognizes same sex unions from outside states. This goes too far and Mayor Giuliani does not support it." So, obviously, Raw Story was seemingly inaccurate (perhaps deliberately so, given their liberal bent) when it editorialized that Rudy "now opposes civil unions". He opposition was to a particular state law. Furthermore, the Sun editorial does not really delve into why Rudy opposes the NH law. It is true that it quoted his campaign as stating "Giuliani believes marriage is between one man and one woman....In this specific case the law states same sex civil unions are the equivalent of marriage and recognizes same sex unions from outside states. This goes too far" However, it also quotes the campaign as saying Rudy believes "Domestic partnerships are the appropriate way to ensure that people are treated fairly," So, taking the Sun editorial at its word, it seems as if the fact the NH law recognizes same sex unions from outside states" is the particular troubling aspect of the law to Rudy. It is not uncommon for supporters of civil unions, domestic partnerships or even gay marriage to worry that laws that favor them run contrary to the notion of states' rights and federalism. This is why, for example, that Bill Clinton signed "the defense of marrage act" into law. So, unless we see something that demonstrates a blanket opposition to all gay marriage or civil unions, as opposed to opposition to a particular law in a particular state, it is not yet accurate to call this a flip-flop.
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If we're talking state's rights though, then Rudy is against a state deciding to recognize other state's civil unions. They should get to decide that.
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he is entitled to believe that there should be a unform federal law and not have states deciding on their own what is right and wrong. If you don't like his opinion, don't vote for him. Praise Allah!
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Man...when I read "Planting a new bush", and that PJP replied, I thought it would be a Gardening tip...
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/blogban3.jpg) [/center] [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/jlamiska.jpg) [/center]
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Since its good to know what the opposition is up to, I really tried to read Michael Wolff's Vanity Fair hit piece on Rudy Giuliani with an open mind. However, its so over the top I doubt most people other than hardcore Clintonistas will take it seriously. Vanity Fair claims "Wolff writes that almost anyone who’s ever worked for Rudy Giuliani expects his presidential campaign to implode at any moment, thanks to his propensity for periods of mania, outbursts, and frequent forms of behavior that generally don’t win elections." Okay, so there's almost always a bit of hyperbole in press releases. But the sub-headline on the piece declares, "Many New York political pros believe Rudy Giuliani—former mayor, hero of 9/11, and now presidential candidate—is, quite literally, nuts." So what's Wolff's evidence that Rudy is psychologically imbalanced? Well, he cites a pre-2004 lunch with a reporter who yelled, "Are you crazy? He's just insane," regarding Rudy. He then quotes various folks who fought with Rudy while he was mayor as saying Rudy "has a devil in him," very, very powerful pathology," and that he has a ""mean streak." But it isn't terribly shocking to hear one's critics declare, "he's nuts." In critiquing Newsweek and New York magazine profiles on Rudy, Wolff writes: Neither reporter—both of whom accompanied Rudy on his campaign trips—appeared to have asked the obvious question (it's a reasonable question for all politicians, but it's professional negligence not to ask it of Rudy): whether he's on antidepressants or any other pharmacological mood stabilizers. It's obvious to ask if Rudy is on meds? Professional negligence to not ask, as opposed to say, national security, health care, education, or anything else the mags asked? Wolff does quote a strident and personal exhange then-Mayor Rudy had on his radio show with a man who wanted the city to legalize owning ferrets as pets. Basically, Rudy calls the guy "sick" and "deranged" and while harsh, all that proves is that Rudy has a strong and well-established position on the hot-button issue of... ferret legalization. Rudy's complaint about the Virgin Mary-in-dung work at the Brooklyn Museum is labeled "jihadish". Considering how the mayor refrained from beheading anyone, or calling for armed resistance against the museum, that seems pretty, um...crazy.  Finally, Wolff grew up near Bernie Kerik's house in Paterson, N.J., and says that if he "heard stories" about Kerik being "mobbed up", Rudy should have.  In the end, Wolff doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. While many of us may look at Rudy and say, "Eh, got some flaws... but a guy who knows how to get results," Wolff looks at Rudy and concludes, "Oh, he must be insane." That'll give MEM and his fellow Clinton staffers some comfort over the next few years (tops) but that's about it.
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I would suggest actually reading the Vanity Fair story then taking the word of somebody who drags a Rudy campaign sign around. G-man just may be biased with what he chose to quote & what he left out Quote:
Giuliani Counts Backers Who Aren't Fans
By PHILIP ELLIOTT 04.30.07, 6:09 PM ET
Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani released his latest slate of New Hampshire supporters last week. One problem: Not all of them back the former New York City mayor.
Alongside a former state GOP chairman, a congressman and an executive councilor who do support Giuliani, a handful of people made the list of 125 supporters despite their objections.
Some are openly criticizing their mistaken inclusion. Others, who did not want to be quoted or to embarrass the Giuliani campaign, have since decided to join it.
Wendy Stanley Jones, named a state co-chair for Women for Giuliani, said she was considering Giuliani, but also was weighing staying out of the race because of a busy personal schedule.
In New Hampshire, "we take our endorsements very seriously," she said. "I wasn't ready to endorse. I'm not sure I will be endorsing. I'd like to think this is because of a little sloppiness."
Mike Galante said a friend told him he had been named as the Carroll County small business chairman, although he never agreed to the post.
"I'd been traveling and there were messages on my machine. I hadn't returned them," Galante said.
He said he is likely to support Giuliani, but wanted a chance to check out other candidates before deciding. To make things worse, his name was misspelled on the list released Thursday, the day after rival Sen. John McCain formally entered the race in New Hampshire.
"We have county chairmen in each of the counties," campaign political director Mark Campbell told New Hampshire reporters on a conference call announcing the roster. "We have great leadership in each of the counties."
The list came days after Sen. John McCain released his list of supporters, a barometer of success in early states such as New Hampshire. His list of almost 100 names also included a former GOP chairman and a former governor.
Giuliani's campaign followed two days later with theirs, which included some alphabetization errors and misspelled names.
...
Forbes
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Dammit. G-man discredited the Vanity Fair piece before I could link to it. No bonus for me this month. I hope Ms Hillary isn't too displeased with my job performance.
There. Fixed it for you.
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An example of G-man's take on the article... Quote:
Finally, Wolff grew up near Bernie Kerik's house in Paterson, N.J., and says that if he "heard stories" about Kerik being "mobbed up", Rudy should have.
That was what G-man had to say about this paragraph...
Quote:
And Bernie Kerik. There is no circumstance under which a politician with any sense of vulnerability or accountability or merely the need to maintain a sense of appearances hires Bernie Kerik (no less as the police commissioner). Kerik is from Paterson, New Jersey, where I'm from. He came to live in a house in the suburb just down the road from where my parents lived. I knew or had heard the same stories everyone else—my parents and my parents' friends—had heard. Which it seems impossible Rudy would not have heard, too. And if, somehow, he hadn't heard them, we know now from Rudy's own grand-jury testimony that he was, in fact, officially told—though, he says, it didn't quite register. In other words, one of the most experienced prosecutors of organized-crime figures has spelled out for him what is widely rumored—that his corrections chief and prospective police commissioner might be Mobbed up—and he doesn't get it. Yup. And then goes on to become business partners with the guy. And then becomes his sponsor for high federal office.
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Rassmussen is out with with its latest poll that shows Rudy still enjoys a 16 point lead, with 30 percent support; Fred Thompson and John McCain are tied for second at 14 and Romney is at 11. One thing worth noting is that Giuliani bashers have argued that once voters learn more about his liberal stances on social views and his personal problems, his popularity will quickly sink. But Giuliani has already endured two months of negative news coverage (starting with the March 3 NY Times story about his son Andrew that MEM was beating like a proverbial dead horse for about a month and most recently with that Vanity Fair hit piece that accused him of being mentally ill) but his support has thus far shown itself to be pretty resilient. In fact, Thompson's inclusion in the polling numbers seems to have eaten into his lead more than anything. In the last poll without Thompson, Giuliani had a 20-point lead, and one week later, with Thompson, it had dropped to 10 points. In the past month, it's crept back up.
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Quote:
Giuliani tie to lobbying firm that sought rollback of Clean Air Act could rankle 2008 bid
Published: Tuesday May 1, 2007
"For a native New Yorker mounting a first bid for national office, Rudolph Giuliani has shown an impressive ability to raise money in Texas, where his Republican presidential campaign collected $2.1 million, far more than any other candidate, during the first quarter of the year," writes Russ Buettner for the front page of Tuesday's NEW YORK TIMES, RAW STORY has learned. Excerpts:
"Central to this success has been his affiliation with a well-established and politically connected law firm that is based in Houston and bears his name: Bracewell & Giuliani.
"But the affiliation could pose some political risks for Giuliani, as the firm bearing his name is perhaps the nation's most aggressive lobbyist for coal-fired power plants, whose emissions are seen as major contributors to global warming.
"The firm has also been credited with convincing the Bush administration to roll back key provisions of the Clean Air Act.
RAW
Interesting but not surprising. Rudy's been a busy guy doing all sorts of deals. Thank goodness we still have plenty of time to check them out.
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Nah. It won't mean anything. Guiliani was a lawyer, representing a client, no differently than Clinton, Obama or Edwards.
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So as long as he was paid for it he shouldn't be judged?
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Nice title change.
fairplay
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Heh. The funny part about all of Chris's little editorializings in the titles is that he probably drives the casual reader, who might be undecided about Rudy, away...simply because they think the thread is about the President...or gardening...or Chris' love of composting.
But, in any event...
Attorneys have an ethical obligation to represent the interests of, and advocate on behalf of, their clients. If we accept MEM's premise we might as well assume that a public defender favors murder simply because he does his job and defends a murderer.
It also opens him to charges of hypocrisy, since every one of the three main Democratic candidates (clinton, obama and edwards) is also an attorney or former attorney.
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Rudy wasn't acting as a public defender though. He's been making money getting key provisions of the Clean Air Act rolled back. Gee, I wonder if he's elected what he'll do?
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So, by your reckoning, getting a murderer off scot free is okay, but assisting someone in exercising their free speech rights to challange legislation is bad?
Oooookay.......
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Quote:
the G-man said:
So, by your reckoning, getting a murderer off scot free is okay, but assisting someone in exercising their free speech rights to challange legislation is bad?
Oooookay.......
Getting a murderer off is part of the legal system, part of the balances needed for it to work. "Better ten guilty men go free than 1 innocent man to be convicted" and all that.
Taking a civil case to help roll back clean air regulations so a client can get richer while polluting more is either
A. blind greed in accepting the case.
B. pure evil for thinking the client's case is a worthy cause.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
Karl Hungus said:
Getting a murderer off is part of the legal system, part of the balances needed for it to work...
Taking a civil case to help roll back clean air regulations so a client can get richer while polluting more is [greedy or evil]
But that's just you assigning your own, personal, moral standards to different acts and arbitrarily deciding which people do or do not deserve representation.
Attorneys aren't supposed to do that. Their job, indeed, their ethical obligation, is to "zealously represent the interests of [their] clients."
There is nothing illegal or objectively (as opposed to subjectively) unethical about representing a client that wants to change a law that they, personally, disagree with. In fact, the constitution gives every person the First Amendment right to "petition the government" as part of our system and part of what makes our system work.
Therefore, an attorney has no reason not to take the case.
Most people understand that in most circumstances. Therefore, I doubt that this sort of thing will damage any candidate, regardless of party.
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Quote:
Karl Hungus said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
So, by your reckoning, getting a murderer off scot free is okay, but assisting someone in exercising their free speech rights to challange legislation is bad?
Oooookay.......
Getting a murderer off is part of the legal system, part of the balances needed for it to work. "Better ten guilty men go free than 1 innocent man to be convicted" and all that.
Taking a civil case to help roll back clean air regulations so a client can get richer while polluting more is either
A. blind greed in accepting the case.
B. pure evil for thinking the client's case is a worthy cause.
So anyone who disagrees with your POV on pollution (or on this particular clean air proposal) is not just someone who's wrong, or someone who simply has a divergent view from your own.
They're "evil".
How wonderfully tolerant and open-minded of you.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52 |
I'm fine with just letting people know Rudy made money getting key parts of the Clean Air Act stripped away. His apolgists can spout all the gobblygook they want. I think it gives potential voters a good idea that Rudy probably isn't a GOP version of Gore but more like Bush. Bringing us neatly back to why I title many of these posts "Planting a new Bush"
Fair play!
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,801
terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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terrible podcaster 15000+ posts
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Posts: 17,801 |
Everyone who isn't Hillary is a new Bush to you.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52 |
Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
Everyone who isn't Hillary is a new Bush to you.
Not true at all
Fair play!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,952 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,952 Likes: 6 |
That's true. Some are potential Hillary running mates.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52 |
I'm not quite as partisan as you G-man. As I've mentioned before I like McCain, who I doubt would ever be on a Clinton ticket. Perhaps if I was for dirtier air & had some biological kids that I ignored I could get some respect from you
Fair play!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,952 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,952 Likes: 6 |
Are you really going to make me bump up the post about Hillary abusing her biological kids again, just to show what a hypocrite you are?
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203
1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
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1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 14,203 |
Quote:
the G-man said:
Are you really going to make me bump up the post about Hillary abusing her biological kids again, just to show what a hypocrite you are?
that's not abuse.
Bow ties are coool.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52
Fair Play! 15000+ posts
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Fair Play! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,894 Likes: 52 |
Quote:
Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Are you really going to make me bump up the post about Hillary abusing her biological kids again, just to show what a hypocrite you are?
that's not abuse.
G-man's got another loser that he wants to get elected so if Rudy is a shitty parent then Hillary must be made out to be an abusive one.
Fair play!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,952 Likes: 6
Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
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Officially "too old for this shit" 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 43,952 Likes: 6 |
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
...loser... shitty parent...
Its fun watching you desperately attempting to play the "family values" card and, repeatedly seeing it fail and/or make you look hypocritical, become increasingly frustrated and overtly rude.
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