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Would you say that "molesting" means, especially in the case of children, any sort of sexual act their body [wasn't designed for/isn't prepared for]?
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It's more than that. A child doesn't have the emotional development to even begin to comprehend the inner workings of a relationship (sexual or otherwise). Anyone claiming that they were motivated by 'love' to inflict themselves on a child knows nothing of the meaning of the word.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Would you say that "molesting" means, especially in the case of children, any sort of sexual act their body [wasn't designed for/isn't prepared for]?
And to follow this into your intended direction...You'd be hard pressed to say that the body was designed to the exclusion of anal sex. Ask your doctor where the male g-spot is.
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Quote:
klinton said:
And to follow this into your intended direction...You'd be hard pressed to say that the body was designed to the exclusion of anal sex. Ask your doctor where the male g-spot is.
Yeah, I know what the "male g-spot" is, but the presence of the prostate right next to the sphincter doesn't mean anal sex is the right way to go about sexual pleasure. A masochist could take sexual pleasure from cutting himself. That doesn't make the act correct. What's more, even with the presence of the prostate, men still find it painful (not to mention unhealthy). With a woman, you at least don't have to find the g-spot to give her pleasure. The vagina is saturated with nerves. Moreover, the same case applies with anal sex for a woman.
Quote:
klinton said:
It's more than that. A child doesn't have the emotional development to even begin to comprehend the inner workings of a relationship (sexual or otherwise). Anyone claiming that they were motivated by 'love' to inflict themselves on a child knows nothing of the meaning of the word.
Your assumption about the feelings of a prebuscent doesn't apply to the "inner workings" of the psychology of a pedophile. Despite society's popular opinion, their attraction to kids could be seen by them as a natural feeling, as (sorry Klint) homosexuals assert their attractions as "natural".
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Your assumption about the feelings of a prebuscent doesn't apply to the "inner workings" of the psychology of a pedophile. Despite society's popular opinion, their attraction to kids could be seen by them as a natural feeling, as (sorry Klint) homosexuals assert their attractions as "natural".
I'm not going into this with you, yet again. you know damned well the difference between two mature adults falling in love and someone forcing themselves upon a child. One doesn't have to be a psych major (or much above complete idiocy) to know that a child doesn't posess the faculties to be involved in any sort of romantic entanglement.
It is more than clear that someone incapable of forming mature relationships with mature individuals, and thus projecting them onto children, is obviously someone with issues. This is not the case with two mature individuals who seek eachothers companionship based in equality and genuine, mutual, love.
Ass.
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But klinton, just to play devil's advocate here:
1. If we accept "the homosexuality is OK because you're born gay" argument, and it is later established that pedophiles are born that way, it just knocked out one of the two arguments against pedophilia. Granted there is the "children can't consent" argument, but given the increasing sexualization of children, coupled with more and more laws saying that children CAN make decisions on their own (abortion laws, for example), can you really say that someone won't soon argue, successfully that pedophilia is just "misunderstood"?
2. If we accept that homosexuality is OK because whatever two consenting adults do is their own business, what stops us from having to illegalize brother-sister marriages?
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 And with that, I'll quote myself from page 2: Quote:
Pariah said:
Oi....Can't turn away. I'm just gonna try and clarify something here and then RUN AWAY!
Quote:
Animalman said:
I don't see what the sphincter has to do with consenting. Even if you arrive at the position that participating in anal sex is a health-hazard(which, if performed correctly, it isn't), that isn't a basis for calling the act unconsentual. For starters, hetero couples do it as well, and secondly, how many potentially hazardous activities are legal in this country? A lot.
What I meant by bringing up sodomy in concordance with the concept of "consent" is that the term implies mental maturity, but as such, walks hand in hand with physical maturity as well. Meaning that if our knowledge came to us a lot faster than our sexual abilities, we'd have two different types of consent: You'd be considered mentally mature at age...10 (for sake of argument) whilst you're body is best prepped for sexual intercourse at ages 18-19. But that physical maturity is always based on straight couple statistics; a man with a woman would be best suited for sex if they were of the mutual age of 18-19, but there's no real way of saying when someone would be best suited to participate in sodomy. With the fact being that at any age it's physically abrasive, there can be no consentual age for that. Technically, with its current legalization and forseeable generation of much smarter children, kids could get away with sodomy without legal reparation. And eventually, using the same logic I did with pre-pubescence and sodomy, I could further reason that even the orthodox form of sexual intercourse would be valid for use by young girls because sodomy is of the same fashion as pre-mature sexual intercourse--With the female being the pre-mature one.
This is just my attempt at clarification mind you, I'm not trying to start another line of argument. Respond to it as you will, and I'll just do my best not to reply.
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I think the bottom line here is that if you think being gay is just wrong, or sick, or is a one way ticket to hell, then nothing a gay man has to say is going to change your mind.
Being gay gives you quite a different viewpoint.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I think the bottom line here is that if you think being gay is just wrong, or sick, or is a one way ticket to hell, then nothing a gay man has to say is going to change your mind.
Thank you for being a judgmental prick. As far as I can see, Klinton is being very narrow-minded and unappreciative of a possible scenario attributed to all forms of unorthodox attraction in a human being. Trying to "change my mind" on something whilst being totally insensitive to other arguments isn't going to be a very effective tactic on his part.
P.S.
I don't find being gay, in and of itself, as "wrong" in the sense that it's sinful. I find the typical sexual acts of homosexuals as "wrong".
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-05-15 4:14 AM.
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No Pariah .....you are the Judgemental prick.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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I meant what I said earlier about people in GENERAL not accepting gays.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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it wasn't an attack on you specifically.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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But you asked for it with that response!!!!!!
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Could a mod please combine those posts.
Beardguy, your statement was very direct. Next time you should clarify its direction.
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Ok, I will clarify : I was referring to people in general and THEIR attitude towards gays, NOT to anything specific you posted in here. You saw my statement and jumped the gun. I'm just very tired of people who think gay is evil automatically, like Jerry Falwell.. back in 1974, a man saved then President Gerald Ford from Squeaky Fromm, who was about to shoot Mr. Ford. The man was commended.
On a talk show, he came out and said he is gay, and said this to show gays are capable of doing a LOT of good, and soon afterward, Jerry Falwell was on that show hosted by Tom Snyder, and said the man's good act did NOT count because he is gay, and he ( the man who saved the president. ) was headed for hell when he died in spite of his brave act.
Talk like that REALLY pisses me off.
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As I know quite personally two men and one woman who were sexually assaulted as very young children (8, 10, and 8 respectivly) and plenty openly homosexual people (two friends male and female, two co-workers male and female), and a friend/co-worker who is openly bi-sexual, there is quite a large goddamn differance between people in homosexual relationships and people in pedophilic "relationships." For one thing, all three of my friends who were mollested are (and have been for years) in psychological counseling due to post-traumatic stress syndrome, uncontrolable panic attacks, and -in one case- complete emotional retardation. It has been more than ten years since their offenders were sentanced to jail (in two cases - the other guy was never convicted because the girl never spoke up) and they are still handicapped by the trauma inflicted on their lives by these men whom they and their families trusted (hockey coach and father). If there is anything their situation reminds me of is my aunt who was gang-raped by part of the football team when she was in highschool (her parents told her it was her fault and not to tell anyone lest they be disgraced in the community... my grandparents are of an evil all their own). There is no way logistics and hasty conclusions or rationalizations can ever equate rape and pedophilic molestation to healthy adult relationships no matter what genders are involved in the match-up.
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Uschi, if you'd please review, the argument isn't based on the outcome of child-rape, but rather the comparative psychology of homosexuals and pedophiles and how their individual reasoning, based on their sexuality, can override any ideal thoughts that involve not acting on their urges. Plus, any arguments that have referred to adult-child interaction have involved hypothetical/past cases of children actually consenting to sexual contact and what kind of controversey this causes concerning the possible ability, in the eyes of the law, for a person under eighteen to have the right of consent. In which case, you should try refuting the arguments instead of making snap judgments like this:
Quote:
Uschi said:
There is no way logistics and hasty conclusions or rationalizations can ever equate rape and pedophilic molestation to healthy adult relationships no matter what genders are involved in the match-up.
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-05-15 8:21 AM.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
But klinton, just to play devil's advocate here:
1. "children can't consent"
2. If we accept that homosexuality is OK because whatever two consenting adults do is their own business, what stops us from having to illegalize brother-sister marriages?
From a strictly secular standpoint...I'm not getting into anyone's religious ideals here...of all of the things listed in your argument, homosexuality is a 'victimless crime'. Even in a brother/sister scenario the resulting children are highly likely to suffer from debilitative birth defects. We know that closely mixing the gene pool leads to malformities and mental handicaps. This is reason alone to forbid such a practice.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
I don't find being gay, in and of itself, as "wrong" in the sense that it's sinful. I find the typical sexual acts of homosexuals as "wrong".
What you find sinful is irrelevant. As a society we cannot allow the freedoms of others to be limited by the desires of groups of people....that includes your church.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
With the fact being that at any age it's physically abrasive, there can be no consentual age for that.
No matter how many times you say that, it doesn't make it true. When the medical community as a whole doesn't share your ideas, you might want to reconsider that perhaps your opinion is biased and incorrect...no matter how much you want it to be true.
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Quote:
As a society we cannot allow the freedoms of others to be limited by the desires of groups of people
Every legal system on earth--in fact, every government on earth--is an effort by a group of people to limit the freedom of others.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Every legal system on earth--in fact, every government on earth--is an effort by a group of people to limit the freedom of others.
Which is something we should be moving away from. If the actions of an individual do not inflict harm on another...there is no need, nor should thier be any desire, to deny that person thier freedom.
I've kept the same sig forever now for a reason. It's more than a clever catch phrase....it's one of my most fundamental beliefs.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
With the fact being that at any age it's physically abrasive, there can be no consentual age for that.
No matter how many times you say that, it doesn't make it true. When the medical community as a whole doesn't share your ideas, you might want to reconsider that perhaps your opinion is biased and incorrect...no matter how much you want it to be true.
You might try reading some documentation before you make such assumptions.
You would then find that it is your own assumptions that are wishful thinking, not Pariah's statements.
The Center for Disease Control ( CDC ) has described the increased risk-factors of anal sex.
According to a TIME magazine cover story in 1989-1990 that I read on AIDS, which frankly blew my mind with its surprisingly explicit description of anal sex, in what had been up to then a relatively conservative publication.
TIME described the act of penetration during anal sex, even the most gentle and well-lubricated penetration, always results in small tears in the anal cavity, that result in some degree of bleeding, and thus blood-to-blood contact, that makes transmission of AIDS far more likely during anal sex than any other sex.
As contrasted with the vagina, which is designed for sex (unlike the rectum). The vagina has natural immunity and defenses against foreign elements. The vagina has natural fluids to prevent tearing during sex.
As former talk-show host Morton Downey Jr. said:
"The anus is an exit, not an entrance !"
Statistics show gay men are prone to a far greater ratio of sexually transmitted diseases, because the rectum is not designed for sex, or protection from sexually transmitted disease.
In addition, I haven't seen one point raised in this topic that wasn't already covered in detail in the prior topic.
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Much as gays and liberals here would like to pretend there isn't a factual and intelligent counterpoint to the issues raised here, and would like to blanket-label anyone who disagrees with them as "ignorant" or "uninformed" or "homophobic" or "religious fanatics" or whatever.
These are just emotionally charged liberal labels that bypass the polite and intelligent responses by conservatives here.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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I agree...For the transmission of STD's, yes it is a high risk activity. Pariah is of the opinon though that the act itself is a danger to the body, which is not the case.
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Quote:
klinton said:
I agree...For the transmission of STD's, yes it is a high risk activity. Pariah is of the opinon though that the act itself is a danger to the body, which is not the case.
If the act of anal sex...
1) increases the risk of disease
and
2) always causes hemorragic trauma to the rectal cavity
...how does that contradict what Pariah said?
That is, by definition, a danger to the body.
- from Do Racists have lower IQ's...
Liberals who bemoan discrimination, intolerance, restraint of Constitutional freedoms, and promotion of hatred toward various abberant minorities, have absolutely no problem with discriminating against, being intolerant of, restricting Constitutional freedoms of, and directing hate-filled scapegoat rhetoric against conservatives.
EXACTLY what they accuse Republicans/conservatives of doing, is EXACTLY what liberals/Democrats do themselves, to those who oppose their beliefs.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
1) increases the risk of disease
2) always causes hemorragic trauma to the rectal cavity
...how does that contradict what Pariah said?
the damage to the rectum is not unlike similar trauma experienced by many women via vaginal intercourse. Don't play it up like it's something horrid and life threatening.
And std transmission has little or no impact on a married couple...which is the very reason Pariah is attempting to paint it as a health risk - to use it as a reason to ban gay marriage.
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Quote:
Wonder Boy said:
In addition, I haven't seen one point raised in this topic that wasn't already covered in detail in the prior topic.
This I'll agree with you on. I was completetly aginst the formulation of this new topic...for the very reason that it's an endless circular discussion. I will never agree with you and Pariah....and you all will never see my side of the issue, as you're too busy trying to uphold your church ordained agenda (which, yes, is all it amounts to).
Last edited by klinton; 2005-05-15 4:22 PM.
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Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, gay men want Uranus, and your penis.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, gay men want Uranus, and your penis.
Ummm...ok.... 
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Quote:
klinton said:
you're too busy trying to uphold your church ordained agenda (which, yes, is all it amounts to).
With all due respect, klinton, even assuming that to be true, how is their failure to see your viewpoint because of their "church ordained agenda" any different than your failure to see their viewpoint due to your "biologically ordained" agenda?
I understand, and even sympathize, with the argument that this whole thread has become circular, but you can't have a circle without both sides more or less engaging in mirror behavior, can you?
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Klinton, I wanted to break up the anger here with a bit of levity.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
With all due respect, klinton, even assuming that to be true, how is their failure to see your viewpoint because of their "church ordained agenda" any different than your failure to see their viewpoint due to your "biologically ordained" agenda?
I agree. The major difference is that I am not trying to limit thier ability to practice thier religion. The same cannot be said for thier agenda. They expect everyone to conform to the mandates of thier church...to the exclusion of any disenting opinions. My wish is merely to be left alone, free to live as I see fit.
It's a huge difference.
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Quote:
klinton said:
What you find sinful is irrelevant. As a society we cannot allow the freedoms of others to be limited by the desires of groups of people....that includes your church.
I wasn't regarding the argument with my religion in mind Klinton, I thought BeardGuy was interpreting my intentions as a religous individual due to the directness of his statement. That's why I included the term "sin".
Quote:
klinton said:
No matter how many times you say that, it doesn't make it true. When the medical community as a whole doesn't share your ideas, you might want to reconsider that perhaps your opinion is biased and incorrect...no matter how much you want it to be true.
The medical community is where my ideas came from. There have been plenty of contradictory-to-your-belief articles originating from madical sources posted numerously in these frequent-infrequent homosexuality topics. Is "You're so full of shit! The body is affected in no way by homosexual sex!" your final answer?
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Is "You're so full of shit! The body is affected in no way by homosexual sex!" your final answer?
More or less, yup...Obviously, any sort of intercourse is going to affect your body. Giving birth causes more adverse affects on a human body....and it was designed for that.
The only 'health risks' that have been brought up in here are either minimal and being overblown (the rectal tearing bit), or common to all promiscuous sexual behavior (the risk of transmiting STD's).
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Quote:
klinton said:
Giving birth causes more adverse affects on a human body....and it was designed for that.
Nice spin. Please to note though, it wasn't designed for pain and tissue damage, but for healing. Also note that the vagina, provided it's entered unabrasively, would not suffer the kind of blunt force or unwanted/unecessary distortion which will always be accredited to the sphincter's reaction to anal sex.
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The only 'health risks' that have been brought up in here are either minimal and being overblown (the rectal tearing bit), or common to all promiscuous sexual behavior (the risk of transmiting STD's).
So essentially, you're just gonna keep saying I'm wrong because the articles that originate from the medical community involve "overblown" medical health risks. I find that to be rather dumb considering, just a moment ago, you put so much faith in their words.
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klinton said:
I agree. The major difference is that I am not trying to limit thier ability to practice thier religion. The same cannot be said for thier agenda. They expect everyone to conform to the mandates of thier church...to the exclusion of any disenting opinions.
Yeesh!
I speak for Catholicism (and I think this is the official tone for most Christian sects) that we merely expect people to fully understand and consider our side of the argument before pitching it to the curb in lieu of stubborness and a life of health-risk. You haven't actually proven any sort of oppression on your part that wasn't merely orcestrated by an independent source who distorted the message of the Church or Christianity in general.
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My wish is merely to be left alone, free to live as I see fit.
I'm sure many of the AIDS contractors said the same thing.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657
1500+ posts
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1500+ posts
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,657 |
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Pariah said:
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klinton said:
What you find sinful is irrelevant. As a society we cannot allow the freedoms of others to be limited by the desires of groups of people....that includes your church.
I wasn't regarding the argument with my religion in mind Klinton, I thought BeardGuy was interpreting my intentions as a religous individual due to the directness of his statement. That's why I included the term "sin".
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klinton said:
No matter how many times you say that, it doesn't make it true. When the medical community as a whole doesn't share your ideas, you might want to reconsider that perhaps your opinion is biased and incorrect...no matter how much you want it to be true.
The medical community is where my ideas came from. There have been plenty of contradictory-to-your-belief articles originating from madical sources posted numerously in these frequent-infrequent homosexuality topics. Is "You're so full of shit! The body is affected in no way by homosexual sex!" your final answer?
Hell yes the body is affected by homosexual acts! They produce a feeling of ecstacy in the participants. Any guy that has never sucked a tasty cock or rode the pole to orgasm has nothing valid to say about gay sex.
BTW anal sex is not the sole domain of gays. Many of your straight friends and neighbors enjoy it, too!
Tell us what your particular kinks are, Pariah. I think Catholics have a predeliction for SM & BD.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7
The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
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The conscience of the rkmbs! 15000+ posts
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 30,833 Likes: 7 |
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magicjay38 said:
Hell yes the body is affected by homosexual acts! They produce a feeling of ecstacy in the participants. Any guy that has never sucked a tasty cock or rode the pole to orgasm has nothing valid to say about gay sex.
BTW anal sex is not the sole domain of gays. Many of your straight friends and neighbors enjoy it, too!
Hurm...Apparently Magicjay's another Whomod alt.
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Tell us what your particular kinks are, Pariah. I think Catholics have a predeliction for SM & BD.
Illustrated vampiric trannies.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,281
Tabarnak! 6000+ posts
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Tabarnak! 6000+ posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,281 |
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Pariah said:
Nice spin. Please to note though, it wasn't designed for pain and tissue damage, but for healing. Also note that the vagina, provided it's entered unabrasively, would not suffer the kind of blunt force or unwanted/unecessary distortion which will always be accredited to the sphincter's reaction to anal sex.
The tissues in the rectum are not irreversibly damaged...if that were the case constipation would be the death of us all. You keep referring to it in terms such as 'blunt force' and 'unwanted'...these words belie your internal feelings of disgust...and do little to address an act of love. These words are 'accredited to the sphincters' reaction by people like you...not the participants in the act. You'd be surprised how malable it can be in anticipation of sex...much like the vagina.
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So essentially, you're just gonna keep saying I'm wrong because the articles that originate from the medical community involve "overblown" medical health risks. I find that to be rather dumb considering, just a moment ago, you put so much faith in their words.
You're seeing it say what you want to see. Are gay men more prone to STDs? Yes. But only because the gay community is rampant with casual sex (a situation that is not likely to improve if they cntinue to be marginalized). Can anal sex cause damage to the rectal cavity? Yes. But the severety is not something to note as a 'health risk' or a reason to refrain from the actvity....not even close. Any attempt to say otherwise is just not true. An article from 1990, and Time magazine, ia not an authority on the subject.
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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