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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
To sum it up, since a couple of you don't like reading through "long" articles - this isn't a case of gays being denied Communion. This is a case of people who support gay rights but who aren't gay being denied Communion.
Maybe it's not for me to say this, since I'm not Catholic, but this goes WAY over the line, in my book.
I can at least understand the rationale behind denying gays Communion, although in no way do I agree. But to deny it to people who support gay rights? To me, this is unacceptable.
I need to know the full context here before making a full judgement myself. Communion is something you cannot recieve in mortal sin, if those parishners were fixin' to recieve Christ whilst supporting a homosexual allowance for marriage and having sex, then I can appreciate the priest's feelings. If, however, these were to signify acceptance of people rather than their typical practices, then the priest was definitely wrong.
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Quote:
Batwoman said:
this coming from the agnry drunk
I'm only an 'angry drunk' in here...You're so clever. Why don't you just run on over to the Alias thread and complain again how your father has the nerve to watch his own television. I bust a gut when I read that. You are one stable, mature middle aged woman. 
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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Pariah said:
Here you are sitting on the side-lines taking pot-shots at a religion you don't understand (and can't even begin to)
Please clarify. Why can only you understand the Catholic Church? What secrets were revealed to only you?
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does this mean we should tolerate the beliefs of the KKK, The Black Panthers, Nazis, Satan extremists, etc. as well as homosexuality?
Are you equating gay people with the Ku Klux Klan and the devil?
[url=http://www.robkamphausen.com/ubbthreads/...e=0&fpart=2 ]the G-man said[/url]
Wednesday and I have an open relationship. And we believe in sharing.
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Pariah said:
Hurm...Apparently Magicjay's another Whomod alt.
Congratulations MagicJay. You've joined a growing club. People who Pariah thinks are whomod alts.
[url=http://www.robkamphausen.com/ubbthreads/...e=0&fpart=2 ]the G-man said[/url]
Wednesday and I have an open relationship. And we believe in sharing.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
No. It's not a victimless crime, because in the end, with the endorsement of homosexuality, it won't be just "two men" and "two women", it will be much much more.
You give the world the idea that something is even benign and not worth the effort to deter when that's clearly not the case, soon enough that tolerance will turn into a majority practice--And please, spare the 'gays are born, not made' double-speak.
Uh...ok. If you truely believe this...then why aren't you lobbying for the government to make it illegal to have premarital sex? Why aren't you decrying the evils of a capitalist country? And so on and so forth?
'Majority practice'? For real? Get a fucking grip. If most people are so inclined, we would not be having this discussion.
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Quote:
Jeff Gannon said:
Please clarify. Why can only you understand the Catholic Church? What secrets were revealed to only you?
Where dio I say only I could?
What I said was that BeardGuy--And you, Whomod--Will never know anything about the Catholic religion because you keep editing its tenses and trying to denote only things within its scripture that you find incriminating.
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Are you equating gay people with the Ku Klux Klan and the devil?
No. I equated that BeardGuy is so jerk-stupid (as I stated in the sentence before this one--As I'm sure you know) that he made a sweeping argument. He left room for acceptance of ANY philosophy. I merely illustrated his notion's flaw in its messsage of "acceptance".
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Pariah said:
No, I was pointing out that you were implying that only secularists could prove anything to you.
Jesus Christ could descend from Heaven right before your eyes and shout in your face, "YOU'RE WRONG YOU DIPSHIT!! YOU'RE FUCKING WRONG!! CAN'T YOU SEE HOW WRONG YOU ARE!!" and you'd prolly chaulk it up to some sort of revision in the Bible....Or something.
This discussion was to be to the exclusion of your religious ideals. Bringing in any religious influences...yes that includes your obviously biased church websites...serves no purpose in government policy. It is worthless as far as I am concerned.
My relationship with God is my own concern. You need to respect that fact.
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Pariah said:The idea that the world was round once wasn't an industry standard. In fact, no one bought it for the longest time. I think you know how that ended up.....I hope.
And the idea that homosexuality was a disease or brain defect was once the industry standard...I think you need to read up on how that ended up.
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Since I don't want to read 40 pages of back and forth, Pariah, why don't you state simply and straightforward, what do you want? What is the point of all this?
Do want gay people ostracized?
Do you want gay people to shut up?
Do you want gay people to repent of their "sins"?
Do you want gay people to stop asking for "special rights"?
Would you rather they keep their gayness to themselves?
Do you want gay people in the closet?
Do you want gay people to stop with their "immoral practices"?
Do you want gay people to "choose" to be straight?
Tell me. I'd like to know just what you want out of all this arguing.
[url=http://www.robkamphausen.com/ubbthreads/...e=0&fpart=2 ]the G-man said[/url]
Wednesday and I have an open relationship. And we believe in sharing.
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klinton said:
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Batwoman said:
this coming from the agnry drunk
I'm only an 'angry drunk' in here...You're so clever. Why don't you just run on over to the Alias thread and complain again how your father has the nerve to watch his own television. I bust a gut when I read that. You are one stable, mature middle aged woman.
Which is who that post was aimed at you mindless twit!
drop dead
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Uh...ok. If you truely believe this...then why aren't you lobbying for the government to make it illegal to have premarital sex? Why aren't you decrying the evils of a capitalist country? And so on and so forth?
What? I was saying homosexuality and its practices aren't a "victimless crime" and they would not remain isolated, as you tried to imply.
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'Majority practice'? For real? Get a fucking grip. If most people are so inclined, we would not be having this discussion.
I referred to the homosexual populace achieving growth in the future. And, inherently, I was also referring to the rise in sexual proclivities implied by such a growth.
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klinton said:
And the idea that homosexuality was a disease or brain defect was once the industry standard...I think you need to read up on how that ended up.
Yeah, it's still being debated.
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Quote:
Batwoman said:
Which is who that post was aimed at you mindless twit!
drop dead
And it's me that starts the name calling? Grow up, bitch.
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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Quote:
klinton said:
And the idea that homosexuality was a disease or brain defect was once the industry standard...I think you need to read up on how that ended up.
Yeah, it's still being debated.
Only by religious zealots! Not by psychologists or psychiatrists.
Here's a question Pariah: Have you ever had sex with anyone male or female that you didn't pay?
It's hard to imagine. You're more sexually repressed than St. Augustine.
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
I need to know the full context here before making a full judgement myself. Communion is something you cannot recieve in mortal sin, if those parishners were fixin' to recieve Christ whilst supporting a homosexual allowance for marriage and having sex, then I can appreciate the priest's feelings.
If you don't mind, could you clear a couple things up for me?
Is a mortal sin different from a regular sin? How do you know which sins are mortal sins and which ones are not?
Also, you said that if parishoners were supporting the idea of gay marriage, you could understand the priest's view. Does this mean that supporting the idea of gay marriage without actually engaging in it would be considered a mortal sin, or make one worthy of being denied Communion?
Quote:
If, however, these were to signify acceptance of people rather than their typical practices, then the priest was definitely wrong.
I found the following quotes in the article I posted:
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Sister Gabriel Herbers said she wore a sash to show sympathy for the gay and lesbian community. Their sexual orientation "is a gift from God just as much as my gift of being a female is," she said.
Ann McComas-Bussa did not wear a sash, but she and her husband and three children all wore rainbow-colored ribbons and were denied communion. "As a Catholic, I just need to stand in solidarity with those that are being oppressed," she said.
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The Rainbow Sash Alliance says that by wearing the sash, members "publicly claim our place at Christ's table, sacramentally expressing the truth in our lives, and calling the church to embrace a new day of integrity and freedom."
Organizer Brian McNeill wrote to Flynn last month, explaining that the sashes are a symbol "to celebrate the gift of our lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender sexuality."
Flynn wrote back to say the sashes are "more and more perceived as a protest against church teaching," declaring that it has never been acceptable "to use the reception of communion as an act of protest."
So that's an idea of where some of these people are coming from. It sounds like it's about fair treatment of gays as people, rather than an advocation of gay marriage.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-16 8:05 PM.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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I think the thrill is gone...Pariah insulted me once months ago and it really upset me..now he put me down and I could really care less.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Pariah Said :
_________________________________________
No. I equated that BeardGuy is so jerk-stupid (as I stated in the sentence before this one--As I'm sure you know) that he made a sweeping argument. He left room for acceptance of ANY philosophy. I merely illustrated his notion's flaw in its messsage of "acceptance".
________________________________________
I don't like repeating myself, Pariah, but name calling is a sign of immaturity. How old are you? 18? I hope you grow up someday, because if you talk like this to people in person, someone is gonna belt you in the mouth, but good.... Sad part will be, you most likely WON'T learn anything from it.
And you REALLY have no tolerance for gays. You hide behind bible quotes that say it's a mortal sin. If there IS really reincarnation..I hope you come back as a Gay Man in your next life, and then you'll know how it feels to have people say things to you like, " I accept gays but not their sex acts. "
I DO know some Bible quotes... " Let He who is without sin cast the first stone. " You seem to be awfully good at pitching, Pariah.
The Bible ALSO says, " If you see a woman who is a Harlot, you must organize a crowd and stone her to death. " There's a LOT of fun rules like that in the bible, Pariah..so before you insult others with quotes from said Bible, better practice what you preach!! Take the Bible WORD FOR WORD. Ok, kid, get out there, stone some hookers and kill a few Philistines!
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
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klinton said:
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Batwoman said:
That proves nothing, especially that it's "natural".
How does it not? Animals react on instinct...not on 'choices'. How can it's occurance in nature be anything but natural?
Are you sure you want to use the animals do it argument? Before you rest anything on this argument consider other things animals do on instict.
- Incest
- beatiality
- Some animals kill thier mate durring or after sex
- Some animals eat thier new born children
- many animals willl kill compitition for a mate.
These sadly occur sometimes with us humans. Not sure about bestiality but the rest are instinctive for some species. And we humans do still have instincts. Fight or flight for example. It wouldn't be a big leap that male/female attraction was part of our makeup.
Fair play!
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Quote:
Jeff Gannon said:
Since I don't want to read 40 pages of back and forth, Pariah, why don't you state simply and straightforward, what do you want? What is the point of all this?
Do want gay people ostracized?
Do you want gay people to shut up?
Do you want gay people to repent of their "sins"?
Do you want gay people to stop asking for "special rights"?
Would you rather they keep their gayness to themselves?
Do you want gay people in the closet?
Do you want gay people to stop with their "immoral practices"?
Do you want gay people to "choose" to be straight?
Tell me. I'd like to know just what you want out of all this arguing.
Actually some good questions for everyone on the other side. Anyone care to answer them?
Fair play!
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Quote:
Batwoman said:
and.....
I read that article you posted and one thing you fail to note, the zoo workers that noticed this found it odd that those same couples didn't have little penguins. It wasn't until they spent a lot of time trying things out that they figured out why, since penguins have no outword genetic signs. They then put those same penguins with ones of the opposite sex to change things.
My point is, doesn't mean that's right. The point in have a planet full of both male AND female species is for procreation. If homosexualty were the norm, then there would only be 1 gender on this planet, and it would have been wiped out once all of them died off.
So you've proven nothing by that statement.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Homosexuality doesn't have to be the norm. I'm just saying that it's natural. If 'GOD" didn't want gays and homosexuality goes against "GOD's" will, howcome animals are homosexual? Penguins mate for life. There didn't have to be no female penguins. Maybe there weren't as many female penguins as male so they just paired up anyhow. It doesn't matter. I'm not saying that homosexuality is the only way to go or that a species cannot reproduce with homosexuality when there is a two-gender society. I'm just saying people aren't the only ones to do it.
As for one gender on the planet, we all started out as asexual multi-celled organisms reproducing through cloning ourselves and getting an occasional mutation when things didn't go perfect (as does happen). I see no reason to demand heterosexual relations for a species to survive on a planet. Even if we weren't here, some of the other lower-based life forms still would be.
Just as we have evolved past our need for sugar cravings, we have evolved past our need for strictly procreational sexual relations. People crave sugar because, before it was readilly available, sugary sweet foods like berries have a lot of energy which could be useful for the survival of a young human race. Those who craved sugars survived more often it looks like. Now we still crave sugars and, in societies like America where will-power and restraint are not enforced values regarding much of anything, we eat them to excess. People die from malnutrition here by being overweight while in other places people die of malnutrition and starvation. My point is that since our evolution started to favor brain use rather than body stregnth and agility we have surpassed our basic needs. We live in surpluss. Because of modern medicine people are living twice as long as they did a couple hundred years ago. It is no longer a need to procreate ferociously in order to maintain species survival. In the Middle Ages nine of ten children would die of disease or something before reaching puberty. It was valuable for the church to teach 'be fruitful and multiply' when most of the people croaked. It was basic instinct to pop out whatever you could. In present time and in first world countries we don't have the same problems. There is no need to restrict pleasurable activities to merely their primary function. People can afford to use contraception or alternative routs of sexual stimulation, including sodomy.
Again looking at animal behaviors, there is a class of Ape that is heavy on the sex-for-pleasure attitude. I believe it's the Bonobous or something like that. The primates have been observed in captivaty and in the wild engaging in non-reproductory sexual acts with each other, supposibly merely for the pleasure they recieve doing it.
My point is, homosexuality is not unnatural or something detrimental to society in any manner.
Old men, fear me! You will shatter under my ruthless apathetic assault!
Uschi - 2
Old Men - 0
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
Is a mortal sin different from a regular sin? How do you know which sins are mortal sins and which ones are not?
There's "venial" sin, and then there's "mortal" sin. The latter is obviously more heinous than the former and is also required in confession in specific detail whilst venial isn't as high priority. Venial consists of things like petty-theft, tripping someone, telling kinds of lies, etc.. Mortal is premarital sex, masturbation, grand larceny, and, generally to one of the greatest extents, murder. Although there is no true heirarchy of sinful situations since it depends on the circumstances of said situations. Not all mortal sins are equal in sinful volume to eachother either, one mortal sin can be greater than another.
As for how one would discern which are mortal and venial: You simply use your logic circuits with the Bible as your mediator; use its teachings to understand where a sin stands between the "venial" and "mortal" standard.
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Also, you said that if parishoners were supporting the idea of gay marriage, you could understand the priest's view. Does this mean that supporting the idea of gay marriage without actually engaging in it would be considered a mortal sin, or make one worthy of being denied Communion?
It's an unadulterated violation of Catholic Doctrine. Endorsing homosexual behavior and remaining an accessory and/or a proponent of gay marriage within the Church is a sin.
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I found the following quotes in the article I posted:
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So that's an idea of where some of these people are coming from. It sounds like it's about fair treatment of gays as people, rather than an advocation of gay marriage.
If you'd please to note, the protestors were illustrating their "trans-gender and homosexuality" as positive traits. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that they're proponents of sexual acts that deviate from the proper and orthodox sexual acts. Their promotion of this behavior is a clear and distinct violation of Catholic doctrine and, in this case, is a mortal sin.
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Beardguy57 said:
And you REALLY have no tolerance for gays. You hide behind bible quotes that say it's a mortal sin. If there IS really reincarnation..I hope you come back as a Gay Man in your next life, and then you'll know how it feels to have people say things to you like, " I accept gays but not their sex acts. "
You must have pulled that from some pagan religion or something, because Christians don't believe in reincarnation.
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I DO know some Bible quotes... " Let He who is without sin cast the first stone. " You seem to be awfully good at pitching, Pariah.
I didn't cast any stones, I pointed out how you were being judgmental and ignorant. I warned you about it earlier, but then you saw fit to partake of that stupidity once again. Your misinterpretations of my religion and the Bible don't equal lack of credibility on its part.
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The Bible ALSO says, " If you see a woman who is a Harlot, you must organize a crowd and stone her to death. " There's a LOT of fun rules like that in the bible, Pariah..so before you insult others with quotes from said Bible, better practice what you preach!! Take the Bible WORD FOR WORD. Ok, kid, get out there, stone some hookers and kill a few Philistines!
Yes. The Bible illustrated that-that was the rule of the times. It then went on to say that Jesus corrected their fallacy.
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klinton said:
And the idea that homosexuality was a disease or brain defect was once the industry standard...I think you need to read up on how that ended up.
........Riiight.....So now you're just gonna bullshit me--For fuck's sake! Take a page out of Jim's book and be reasonable dammit. You have not proven homosexuality to be what you WANT it to be and neither have your purported majority of scientists.
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klinton said:
This discussion was to be to the exclusion of your religious ideals. Bringing in any religious influences...yes that includes your obviously biased church websites...serves no purpose in government policy. It is worthless as far as I am concerned.
My relationship with God is my own concern. You need to respect that fact.
I highlighted the informative segments of one religious site, which didn't express anything about spirituality or religion. At no time did I or it express any sort of views on your revisionist ideals regarding Christianity.
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Jeff Gannon said:
Do want gay people ostracized? For being gay? No.
Do you want gay people to shut up? GLAAD anyway.
Do you want gay people to repent of their "sins"? I encourage it.
Do you want gay people to stop asking for "special rights"? Yes
Would you rather they keep their gayness to themselves? Depends on how you mean.
Do you want gay people in the closet? No.
Do you want gay people to stop with their "immoral practices"? Yes. But not mainly because they're "immoral", but because they're unhealthy and dangerous. And the idea that they're harmless is catching on.
Do you want gay people to "choose" to be straight? I want them to be open to the possibility that they don't have to be gay and that if they persist in believing they can't be any other way, they shouldn't express their love through acts of pointless physical harm.
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magicjay38 said:
Only by religious zealots! Not by psychologists or psychiatrists. Wrong.
Here's a question Pariah: Have you ever had sex with anyone male or female that you didn't pay? Virgin.
It's hard to imagine. You're more sexually repressed than St. Augustine. You just named one of my idols.
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Uschi said:
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Homosexuality doesn't have to be the norm. I'm just saying that it's natural. If 'GOD" didn't want gays and homosexuality goes against "GOD's" will, howcome animals are homosexual?
That's like saying that, "If God didn't want us to eat other humans, or our own children for that matter, he wouldn't have engineered those instincts into lesser sentient lifeforms."
This all around line of argument makes me wonder exactly how you're defining "natural". One could reason that because we created plutonium or enrichened U-235 that-that automatically makes their existence a natural occurence because we, the makers of the substance, came from nature, but that's not about to bypass the fact that we made it and it didn't come straight from the earth as all natural resources do. More to point (and perspective), one could say that a man who has an abnormal brain structure, which makes him a violent killer, is a natural occurence and he should be allowed to do what he's predisposed to do. Could you accurately title such things as "natural"? Wouldn't it be, perhaps "anamolous". Your thesis is built upon an oxymoron; life is built to survive and prosper, not to destory itself and take others with it unnecessarily.
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Penguins mate for life. There didn't have to be no female penguins. Maybe there weren't as many female penguins as male so they just paired up anyhow. It doesn't matter.
Which would suggest that they want sexual release, but that does not, on its own, suggest that homosexuality is natural.
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As for one gender on the planet, we all started out as asexual multi-celled organisms reproducing through cloning ourselves and getting an occasional mutation when things didn't go perfect (as does happen). I see no reason to demand heterosexual relations for a species to survive on a planet. Even if we weren't here, some of the other lower-based life forms still would be.
Evolution = Not Proven. Therefore, it is not a proper example to base your arguments on.
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In the Middle Ages nine of ten children would die of disease or something before reaching puberty. It was valuable for the church to teach 'be fruitful and multiply' when most of the people croaked. It was basic instinct to pop out whatever you could. In present time and in first world countries we don't have the same problems.
The main argument was never regarding the Church.
And where exactly do you get this from?
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There is no need to restrict pleasurable activities to merely their primary function. People can afford to use contraception or alternative routs of sexual stimulation, including sodomy.
Reminder: Never involved the Church before you mentioned it.
This is contradictory to your previous argument. If its no longer profitable for the Church to encourage multiplication cuz' people aren't dying as voluminously, why do they have a firm standpoint against abortion?
Also, I'd like to point out, once again, whilst one can attain pleasure through sodomy, one can also partake of pleasure from lacerating one's self. Does that make it a viable "alternative route" towards sexual stimulation? Sodomy is not a harmless act. And either form of sexual stimulation (sodomy/lacerating) involves pre-requisite learned behavior for successful stimuli.
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Again looking at animal behaviors, there is a class of Ape that is heavy on the sex-for-pleasure attitude. I believe it's the Bonobous or something like that. The primates have been observed in captivaty and in the wild engaging in non-reproductory sexual acts with each other, supposibly merely for the pleasure they recieve doing it.
Is this supposed to illustrate animals as being designed to be deviant, and therefore, a non-cooperative standard for the Church and Christianity altogether? If so, you've completely overlooked the fact that Christianity doesn't feel that animals are on the same level as humans--They don't even have souls. Their demonstration of their predisposition to the baser instincts and incapability to reason as higher sentient lifeforms proves nothing.
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My point is, homosexuality is not unnatural or something detrimental to society in any manner.
This is pulled from another board I posted at regarding the same subject since I already explained this ad nauseum there AND here. Since I've talked about it on Rob's more though, I just decided to use this quote:
The current regulatory commissions of society adhere to rules that dictate the safety of said society. Down to the last individual. That's a given. But this is usually taken for granted in light of what people want as opposed to what's needed by their shared community of citizens. The harvested idea that sodomy is a harmless action is an anti-utopian ideal--And as a society, Utopia is precisely what we strive for. To allow the typical homosexual process to be considered a harmless venture in the face of society is fallacious. Someone saying that homosexuals practicing sodomy is isolated within a minority and, therefore, should be tolerated is no different than someone who reasons that drug trafficking shouldn't be fought against since the effectiveness is below minimal and the cost isn't worth the fight. The subtext, while slightly different, interacts adequately well with homosexual statutes as an analogy: To tolerate hallucinogenic/acidic drugs and let the conception spread that their presence is a harmless societal constant would speed up the governmental entropy and make society crumble. Just as the homosexual civil rights movement hammered the government for their now attained civil unions, the notion that their form of intercourse 'isn't something to worry about' would eventually, on a long enough timeline, cause a mass-spread of positive opinions regarding it. World-wide consideration for casual sodomy as a neutral-good thing would cause a severe negative impact on its recesses. Society dictates that we put people who are mentally imbalanced in the psyche-ward because their actions are a danger to themselves and other people around them. Since homosexuals feel a need to consummate their relationship, they unnaturally and very abrasively abuse their colon. They "feel the need to" have sex in an unorthodox and dangerous element of predisposition. Considering there's correlating feelings/factors between them and sado-masochists, that creates a definite concern as to whether or not we're adhering to ad hominem from an uncredible source. Moreover, this exemplification of a type of civil domino effect could be related to the dangers of the ever-constantly evolving popular culture that has been sewing seeds within politics for the past century. If these opinions caused by kindred forces that only dictate a voluminous voice, and not necessarily a benign one, continue to grow without proper analysis/regulation, their presence could permanently imprint themselves as crucial factors for the domineering political hierarchies of modern-day structural archetypes associated with business and government. No matter what the reality of their presence may be, they'll be viewed as a possible fore-thought that deserves its place in law. This is exactly how NAMBLA was able to get in its own two cents with a degree of success.
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Pariah said:
I don't know where you get this from, I didn't relent anything. I just said I'd do you the favor and word my statements less analytically and more sensitively.
And I appreciate that. THAT right there is a major hurdle.
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You fucking asshole. Here you are sitting on the side-lines taking pot-shots at a religion you don't understand (and can't even begin to)
Though I won't call you a "fucking asshole," there are times you do the same w.r.t. homosexuality. You sit on the sidelines and take shots at it, however analytical and deep you try to be.
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Batwoman said:
Oh so those of us who aren't gay, but know gays can't contribute to this? Yeah that makes sense. 
You can contribute (well, that is, you can type something and then click CONTINUE), but my main request at this point is to do so with the idea in mind that you're talking about other human beings, who have the same feelings you do, and want the same joy out of life that you do.
Last edited by Jim Jackson; 2005-05-17 12:20 PM.
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Pariah said:
No. I equated that BeardGuy is so jerk-stupid
Yes, this is a fine example of Christ-like behavior... 
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Though I won't call you a "fucking asshole," there are times you do the same w.r.t. homosexuality. You sit on the sidelines and take shots at it, however analytical and deep you try to be.
I wasn't going out of my way to be inflammatory towards BG cuz' he's gay. I find it really pisses me of when someone tries to blame my religion for something it's wrongfully accused of--Happens way too often. And the arguments that try to fuel that setiment consist of supposedly violated standards as set by that religion. But the problem is, the Vatican hasn't violated any of its standards, an independent individual or group of individuals has twisted its philosophy into a thing of their own design, and people simply use them as ammunition against Christianity. In the end its falsly(sp) painted as this beacon of intolerance.
It's a cheap argument, and he was being very hit and run about it. And what didn't make it any better was his shown to be misinterpretation of scripture.
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Pariah said: No. I equated that BeardGuy is so jerk-stupid -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Jackson said : Yes, this is a fine example of Christ-like behavior... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pariah, That remark by Jim Jackson in response to your name calling TOTALLY applies to you! You keep quoting the Bible, defending the Bible, yet you seem NOT to have absorbed it's messages of being good to others. Yes, I could stoop to name calling and insults as you seem to enjoy doing, but that is behavoir more suited to grade school age children and not well suited at all for adults. You will notice that I am treating you like an equal, an adult, even though you are not behaving like one in here. One can hope that as you age, you will mature. I wish that and all the best for you, Pariah.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Pariah said, with slight modification:
I find it really pisses me of when someone tries to blame my [sexual orientaion] for something it's wrongfully accused of--Happens way too often.
Welcome to my world, grasshopper.
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Pariah said:
But the problem is, the Vatican hasn't violated any of its standards, an independent individual or group of individuals has twisted its philosophy into a thing of their own design, and people simply use them as ammunition against Christianity. In the end its falsly(sp) painted as this beacon of intolerance.
It's a cheap argument, and he was being very hit and run about it. And what didn't make it any better was his shown to be misinterpretation of scripture.
See, here's my take: I don't really know anything about the Catholic Church. So I keep my mouth shut on that topic.
Food for thought.
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I don't know why I'm bothering with this...as it's really Pariah that should be providing extensive, legitimate documentation of his arguments...but here goes. The views of the three leading psychological associations on homosexuality:
U.S.A
Canada
Britan
As to the physical dangers, I can provide a series of comparative articles that list the risks involved in vaginal sex vs. those in anal sex. If you're willing to read them, you'll note that all of the warnings/risks are identical. And despite looking, I have yet to come across a journal that ascribes any serious risk (besides STI transmission, which is common to every form of intercourse) to the practice.
If karma's a bitch, it will be my bitch!
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Jim Jackson said:
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Batwoman said:
Oh so those of us who aren't gay, but know gays can't contribute to this? Yeah that makes sense.
You can contribute (well, that is, you can type something and then click CONTINUE), but my main request at this point is to do so with the idea in mind that you're talking about other human beings, who have the same feelings you do, and want the same joy out of life that you do.
You haven't exactly been listening to anything anyone straight has had to say. Anytime we've posted something, you've said we have no clue what we're talking about, that we're just making this stuff up.
Last edited by Batwoman; 2005-05-17 6:21 PM.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Batwoman said:
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Matter-eater Man said:
Actually many Christians are fine with gay marriage & homosexuality in general.
No they're not.
Yes they are. The Catholic Church and Fundamentalists (aka Fundys) have a problem with it. The Episcopal Church (Catholic Lite) is beyond the marriage question. They're wrestling with gay bishops, with yes, gays can be elevated to the Episcopet currently winning on that issue. The recently elected Bishop of New Hampshire is openly gay and has a partner.
The Lutheran Church in America is debating gay marriage but some Lutheran Ministers already will officiate. Odds are they will follow their shared communion partners, the Episcopalians.
The Methodists are also struggling with Gay marriage (and you know a Methodist ain't nothin' but a Baptist that can read and write)  It's to close for me to call but what I see in San Francisco is a very pro-gay congregation.
So you see, there are many Christians, including Catholics, that favour gay marriage. All you need to do is open you eyes and take a look around you!
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Batwoman said:
You haven't exactly been listening to anything anyone straight has had to say. Anytime we've posted something, you've said we have no clue what we're talking about, that we're just making this stuff up.
Actually, I have.
I agreed with Pariah when he reported medical evidence that years of receptive anal sex can lead to deficiient sphincter performance, as just one example.
But I will admit, I don't agree with a lot of what the str8s have to say. There's really quite a bit of anti-gay sentiment on Rob's boards and it's very disquieting.
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People on these boards have differing opinions of what it means to be a Christian.
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Batwoman said:
You haven't exactly been listening to anything anyone straight has had to say. Anytime we've posted something, you've said we have no clue what we're talking about, that we're just making this stuff up.
No one has truly listened to anything the other side has to say.
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The concern that str8t people have for my sphincter has been duly noted! If I need a transplant I hope I can get Pariah's. Bet he can pick up a dime with that thing!
Thanks guys (and girls).
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
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Jim Jackson Said :
________________________________
But I will admit, I don't agree with a lot of what the str8s have to say. There's really quite a bit of anti-gay sentiment on Rob's boards and it's very disquieting.
__________________________________________
This is very true, I'm sorry to say. I have experienced some of this here personally. Beardguy57.
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Wednesday said :
_________________________________________
No one has truly listened to anything the other side has to say.
___________________________________________
This also true, to a good degree, but not totally, IMO.
Their are a few straights here who are supportive of gays, though they may not like the actual idea of gay sex.
I have spoken with them. Beardguy57.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
See, here's my take: I don't really know anything about the Catholic Church. So I keep my mouth shut on that topic.
Food for thought.
thank you!
I can't recall any religious discussion here where Pariah didn't berate people for not knowing anything about the subject nor being capable of knowing what we were talking about.
Fairs fair after all. If this standard applies to religious discussion, then it should apply to gay topics.
Pariah, as a non-gay person, you don't know nor will you ever be capable of knowing what you're talking about.
Of course though, I have my opinons of the reasons for Pariah's desperate anti-gay diatribes.... Given his fetishes and all....
And it's not a novel concept, every day we hear stories of more and more pious anti-gay conservatives who are either gay and/or engage in bestiality or group sex.
[url=http://www.robkamphausen.com/ubbthreads/...e=0&fpart=2 ]the G-man said[/url]
Wednesday and I have an open relationship. And we believe in sharing.
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Quote:
Jeff Gannon said:
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Jim Jackson said:
See, here's my take: I don't really know anything about the Catholic Church. So I keep my mouth shut on that topic.
Food for thought.
thank you!
I can't recall any religious discussion here where Pariah didn't berate people for not knowing anything about the subject nor being capable of knowing what we were talking about.
Fairs fair after all. If this standard applies to religious discussion, then it should apply to gay topics.
Pariah, as a non-gay person, you don't know nor will you ever be capable of knowing what you're talking about.
Of course though, I have my opinons of the reasons for Pariah's desperate anti-gay diatribes.... Given his fetishes and all....
And it's not a novel concept, every day we hear stories of more and more pious anti-gay conservatives who are either gay and/or engage in bestiality or group sex.
Jeff, your post here..and that excerpt you quoted from Jim Jackson..make a lot of sense.
But I'm reasonably certain Pariah will find fault with it. 
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Pariah, That remark by Jim Jackson in response to your name calling TOTALLY applies to you!
You keep quoting the Bible, defending the Bible, yet you seem NOT to have absorbed it's messages of being good to others.
I suppose I should take this as your concession to the fact that you mis-quoted the Bible and slanderously mis-represented the Vatican as well as other representative Christian hierarchies. Thank you.
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klinton said:
I don't know why I'm bothering with this...as it's really Pariah that should be providing extensive, legitimate documentation of his arguments...but here goes.
I could prolly post a dozen counter-arguments and scientific views, some of them would come from the original Canada-Gay Marriage thread, but the fact of the matter is, you won't except them. At all. You'd still just shout 'MAJORITY RULES!! MAJORITY RULES!!' and then top it off with a, 'No straight person could understand how being gay feels.'
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The views of the three leading psychological associations on homosexuality:
U.S.A
Canada
Britan
So I suppose this renders any research to the contrary as irrelevent. That is to say: You want opposing research to be irrelevent. I'm just going to repeat a prior statement: The majority of leading scientists used to think the world was flat....
None of those sites actually offers any sort of analytical evidence--And morever, what analysis I have read up on, from sources that correspond with your views, which is prolly what built the foundation for those sites' conlcusions, is 100% hypothesis, and 100% branched assumption.
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As to the physical dangers, I can provide a series of comparative articles that list the risks involved in vaginal sex vs. those in anal sex. If you're willing to read them, you'll note that all of the warnings/risks are identical. And despite looking, I have yet to come across a journal that ascribes any serious risk (besides STI transmission, which is common to every form of intercourse) to the practice.
Sorry, but I don't need to read any slanted articles. You can produce many different accountable STDs in many people that retain equal or greater volumes of severity, but that won't change the fact that it's simpler to contract them this way rather than that way ("this way" meaning sodomy in this case).
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Jim Jackson said:
See, here's my take: I don't really know anything about the Catholic Church. So I keep my mouth shut on that topic.
Food for thought.
Didn't say I was talking about you now was I?
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Jeff Gannon said:
I can't recall any religious discussion here where Pariah didn't berate people for not knowing anything about the subject nor being capable of knowing what we were talking about.
Fairs fair after all. If this standard applies to religious discussion, then it should apply to gay topics.
It was a generalization, not an isolated exemplification pertaining only to the RKMBs. However, you're wrong. I can distinctly remember at the beginning of the Canada thread that Klinton tried to scrutinize the Church with false/flawd representations. Later on, I remember another poster, KrazyXXXDJ arguing about the animosity of the Church using sweeping generalizations whilst describing descriminatively motivated incidents not perpetrated by the Church, but by independent groups of fanatics.
Edit: Whoops! Misunderstood that: I don't feel I've overstepped any sort of bounderies here guys. As far as being gay goes, I've made it clear that my ideas regarding homosexuality were my hypothesis. Plus, I don't really need to be gay to have an educated opinion on legal (gay marriage) or medical (sodomy) matters pertaining to the subject.
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Pariah, as a non-gay person, you don't know nor will you ever be capable of knowing what you're talking about.
And you, however, do? Does this mean you finally admit to being gay Whomod?
Last edited by Pariah; 2005-05-18 1:52 PM.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
But I will admit, I don't agree with a lot of what the str8s have to say. There's really quite a bit of anti-gay sentiment on Rob's boards and it's very disquieting.
I'd venture to say that I read more about homosexuals on this board than any other board I happen by... and a quite a LOT more.
I have no strong opinion for either side, yet, I can barely breeze through posts on the RKMBs without hearing someone mention their sexual status.
Familarity breeds contempt.
Last edited by Kaz; 2005-05-18 2:44 AM.
Bob Burden said:
Pie for the pirates,
wine for the dogs.
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Well, Rob is the administrator...
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