Quote: magicjay38 said: Well, maybe but it was a long time ago. If you date scientific method as currently understood to the writings of Descartes and Bacon, that was in the 17th century and the roundness of Earth had been demonstrated for quite some time. The earliest recorded proof of a round earth is in the writing of Claudius Ptolemy and Eratosthenes of Cyrene, circa 200 BC. That fact was lost on Europe in the middle ages because it was suppressed by the Catholic Church.
I can't confirm or deny most of that. I do find your bitterness for the Catholic Church on my account humorous though. In any event, this changes nothing. It just says the idea was presented, but also ignored. Even assuming what you said was true, I know for a fact that the idea itself wasn't suppressed, and a minority of people still continued to believe that the earth was round, but they were shot down until the 12-1300s. Much like the present-day research by scientists who feel that homosexuality is a type of mental disease. Their research is free to all, yet it's ignored.
I'll freely admit, that it's hardly conclusive to any degree, even with genuinely reformed homosexuals who embraced a straight lifestyle to speak for them. Since the human brain is just such a complicated mechanism, there are so many scenarios a scientist may not be taking into account. It's not as static as saying "he's exhibiting gay behavior"--There could be any number of reasons for what is described to be "homosexual tendency" and saying a gay person's "fooling themself" into believing they're straight or vice versa. But this a problem that plagues both sides of the argument. Nothing has been absolutely proven biologically, and nothing can be proven by psychiatry--That field is pure assumption from every angle. If absolute certainty is impossible for anything, then that goes double for psychology.
Quote: magicjay38 said: Here again we see Pariah's use of fiction presented as fact.
And here we see an outright lie on your part:
Quote: Syphallis was unknown in Europe in Classical Times. It was long presumed that it was brought from the Americas because it first appeared in the 16th century. Gonorreah can cause pain and sterility but it's rarely fatal or debilitating. And UTI??? that may be but is not always related to sexual activity!
Syphilis was a well known disease within Europe circa 1300. For some reason, people found the evidence to be shallow. Then there was a contradictory excavation in in the 90s.
Quote: Joseph Carter and Greek Colonization The excavation at Metaponto actually took place outside of the ancient city in the area of present day Pantanello. It was a rural site, one of the first of it's kind and covered the period from about 700 B.C with the first Greek colonization to roughly 400 A.D. corresponding to the fall of the Roman Empire. The city and the rural chora had a symbiotic relationship; the town would not have able to exist without the rich rural farmland surronding it. The chora of Metaponto is unique largely because it is contains some of the best preserved examples of land division lines in rural Greek sites. At Metaponto his team was searching for the changes in landscape and the distribution of land. This was done by looking for changes in the composition of deposits of organic remains; primarily ancient seeds and bones. What began as an evaluation of the architecture and the pottery evolved into a multidisciplinary approach. Paleobotanists were employed to examine seed remains, faunal analysists and physical anthropologists studied human and animal remains and geomorphologists looked for changes in the soil. The team was especially interested in the quality of life of the ancient peoples. The multidisciplinary approaches enabled the experts to recognize many diseases that afflicted the Greek colonists and their Roman successors. The discovery of syphilis in 1992 proved that Syphilis had existed in
Tomb at the Pantanello Necropolis
Europe 2500 years ago and took the blame for the disease off the Native Americans. The presence of Syphilis was detected by the careful examination of human remains. Before this evidence was revealed anthropologists believed Syphilis came to Europe with Columbus (some still hold this belief).
There was indeed disease that racked Classical Greece and Rome, diverse of the plague, with identified extraneous symptoms, but because bacterial treatments were not closely documented that long ago, historians don't speak with conclusivity on the subject. But considering the casual behavior of the Classical Romans and Greeks, I don't think it takes a genius to narrow down the odds of where exactly these diseases came from (whether they're identified as syphilis or not).
Brief history of syphilis that backs up the prior article in showing syphilis' presence during the 1300-1400s as well as evidence showing its presence in Greece:
Quote: History of Syphilis The origins of syphilis are not known, though it does appear to have been documented by Quick Facts about: Hippocrates
Medical practitioner who is regarded as the father of medicine; author of the Hippocratic Oath (circa 460-377 BC)Hippocrates in Classical Greece in its venereal/tertiary form. This form was known in a Greek city of Metaponto in Quick Facts about: Italy
A republic in southern Europe on the Italian Peninsula; was the core of the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire between the 4th century BC and the 5th century ADItaly about 600 BC, and at Quick Facts about: Pompeii
Ancient city southeast of Naples that was buried by a volcanic eruption from VesuviusPompeii where additional archaeological evidence of uniquely grooved teeth of the children of mothers with syphilis has been found.
Evidence of syphilis in medieval Europe has been found at the site of a Quick Facts about: 13
The cardinal number that is the sum of twelve and one13-Quick Facts about: 14th
Quick Summary not found for this subject14th century Augustinian friary in the northeastern Quick Facts about: English
An Indo-European language belonging to the West Germanic branch; the official language of Britain and the United States and most of the Commonwealth countriesEnglish port of Quick Facts about: Kingston upon Hull
Quick Summary not found for this subjectKingston upon Hull.
This friary provided medical care including palliative care and burial rites for "wretched souls". Quick Facts about: Skeleton
The internal supporting structure that gives an artifact its shapeSkeletons discovered at the friary bear bone lesions typical of tertiary venereal syphilis. Carbon dating affirms these skeletons were buried during the existence of the friary, which was destroyed in 1539.
Examination of the friary site revealed bone lesions on two-thirds of the skeletons, including those closest to the altar, a position reserved for the richer and more generous patrons of the order.
This suggests the privileged of Hull had had syphilis for a long time. At that time, Hull was the second largest port of England after London and was a sophisticated metropolitan international port.
Another school of thought has it that syphilis was brought back to Europe from the Quick Facts about: New World
The hemisphere that includes North and South AmericaNew World by the crew of Quick Facts about: Christopher Columbus
Italian navigator who discovered the New World in the service of Spain while looking for a route to China (1451-1506)Christopher Columbus's first voyage. The evidence is weak and circumstantial, and based on the fact that the first recognized outbreak was at Naples in 1494 where a number of Spaniards from the Columbus crew participated in the army of Quick Facts about: Charles VIII of France
Quick Summary not found for this subjectCharles VIII of France. This theory is challenged by the evidence of syphilis in Hull.
Regarding gonorreah, whilst your claim of rare fatality may be true, the disease remained everpresent and, on a large scale, could very well act as a continual nuissance. Variety of disease, lethal or not, takes its toll on society. In gonorreah's case, it did just that: Gonorreah worked all flanks; it killed people, it deterred their ability to live normally, and, the worst part, it kills newborns--If not seriously, and permanently, incapacitating them.
As for UTI, I don't really think it's an accurate claim that there's no way of knowing if people got UTI from sex back then or not. It's more pronouned as a sexual disease than it is as a chance infection. As I said before, considering the majority of pre-marital relations, the culprit's direction is pointed in rather clearly.
Quote: Jim Jackson said: Pariah, why don't you just worry about getting yourself laid rather than worry about how any of the rest of us get laid?
Jim, please don't tell me you don't see the potential for bacterial immunity and viral mutation when it comes to effects of sodomy. AIDS and HIV didn't just spread to people through sex during their more pronounced outbreaks, past and present. This isn't just about the individuals (who are actually mass numbered, so "individuals" is kinda innappropriate) who aren't me, it's about the virulent implications of a mass spread ideal and practice of sodomy.
Quote: Moderate use of cigarettes isn't bad for one's health? But sodomy is? WTF
*shrug* Well, my defintion of "moderate" is a cigarette like once or twice every three weeks when I need to fight off any anxiety. I don't find that really effects me much. Pills can give you heart burn, too many perscribed ones at once can give you acid reflux....Feh! I just don't see much difference or harm. One cigarette compared to a session of sodomy. I realize I've never actually participated, but to my understanding, some coughing from one sig doesn't really equal the abrasiveness and potential disease delivered upon someone's ass.
Quote: And man, Pariah, for someone who clings so tightly to your religion and fatih, damn, you have a major potty mouth.
If I meant them seriously in the purest context of the word "fuck" when directed at Uschi, I'd be more ashamed, but that was all fun and games (frustration). It's no more inflammatory than the word "darn". I try to stay away from saying God's name in vain more than I try to not use the more commonly considered to be offending tones, which are really kinda hollow once you think about it.
Quote: Wednesday said:
Quote: Pariah said: None of those sites actually offers any sort of analytical evidence--And morever, what analysis I have read up on, from sources that correspond with your views, which is prolly what built the foundation for those sites' conlcusions, is 100% hypothesis, and 100% branched assumption.
Could you quote your sources?
Sources, that you'd find appropriate escape me at the moment. I'll get back to your question though later.
Quote: Uschi said: WHY is this a concern for you? You're always ranting about how much you despise sexual relations. Blood donations are tested thoroughly for contaminants before given to patients. You, to my knowledge, don't share needles with heroin whores. Again, why must you give so much of a damn as to dictate the world?
Uschi, I know you're gonna hate me for saying this, but as a Christian, I have an obligation not to sit by idly and let things crumble, help my fellow man, etc.. So I give my bare minimum of help: I try to be informative. Plus, I don't want to live in a world left vacant for a destructive force barely stoppable by anything. That creates a whole new kind of paranoia. Apathy or not, in all seriousness, I want to have some confidence that I won't die when I inhale the environment or shake someone's hand. I realize you feel I'm a creature of apathetic notions, but truly, I always end up admitting that-that's wishful thinking on my part. You know I use to be really bad until I rehabilitated my personality. Anyway, to be more direct, I'm sure you can encompass the possibility and likelihood of [sodomy/wide-spread sodomy] eventually creating a medical deficit. Bacteria can mutate with more immunities, viruses can mutate into new strains. You can't give these things a window of opportunity to flood any no matter what the size is. On a long enough timeline, it won't matter how many drugs are tested before they're dispenced, they're always a crack for the disease to lurch through, and in many cases that crack is human liability. AIDS/HIV should have died out decades ago, but it didn't. In the 70s, new, better versions of condoms were said to be a flagship that would stagnate the disease, but that didn't happen. I feel there's credence to my suspicions.
