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]Symbols of Gay and Lesbian SubculturePink Triangle The pink triangle is easily one of the more popular and widely- recognized symbols for the gay community. The pink triangle is rooted in World War II times, and reminds us of the tragedies of that era. Although homosexuals were only one of the many groups targeted for extermination by the Nazi regime, it is unfortunately the group that history often excludes. The pink triangle challenges that notion, and defies anyone to deny history. The history of the pink triangle begins before WWII, during Adolf Hitler's rise to power. Paragraph 175, a clause in German law prohibiting homosexual relations, was revised by Hitler in 1935 to include kissing, embracing, and gay fantasies as well as sexual acts. Convicted offenders -- an estimated 25000 just from 1937 to 1939 -- were sent to prison and then later to concentration camps. Their sentence was to be sterilized, and this was most often accomplished by castration. In 1942 Hitler's punishment for homosexuality was extended to death. Each prisoner in the concentration camps wore a colored inverted triangle to designate their reason for incarceration, and hence the designation also served to form a sort of social hierarchy among the prisoners. A green triangle marked its wearer as a regular criminal; a red triangle denoted a political prisoner. Two yellow triangles overlapped to form a Star of David designated a Jewish prisoner. The pink triangle was for homosexuals. A yellow Star of David under a superimposed pink triangle marked the lowest of all prisoners -- a gay Jew. Stories of the camps depict homosexual prisoners being given the worst tasks and labors. Pink triangle prisoners were also a proportionally large focus of attacks from the guards and even other inmates. Although the total number of the homosexual prisoners is not known, official Nazi estimates were an under whelming 10,000. Although homosexual prisoners reportedly were not shipped en masse to the death camps at Auschwitz, a great number of gay men were among the non-Jews who were killed there. Estimates of the number of gay men killed during the Nazi regime range from 50,000 to twice that figure. When the war was finally over, countless many homosexuals remained prisoners in the camps, because Paragraph 175 remained law in West Germany until its repeal in 1969. In the 1970's, gay liberation groups resurrected the pink triangle as a popular symbol for the gay rights movement. Not only is the symbol easily recognized, but it draws attention to oppression and persecution -- then and now. In the 1980's, ACT-UP (AIDS Coalition To Unleash Power) began using the pink triangle for their cause. They inverted the symbol, making it point up, to signify an active fight back rather than a passive resignation to fate. Today, for many, the pink triangle represents pride, solidarity, and a promise to never allow another Holocaust to happen again.
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What's yer point? Nice history lesson for those who didn't know about it already. But it doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen anybody in Columbus, OH, wearing a pink triangle.
We all wear a green carnation.
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You previously asked the basis for my assertion that "a fair number of gays now wear pink triangles as a badge of honor."
This article states that the pink triangle is "one of the more popular...symbols for the gay community," used as "a popular symbol for the gay rights movement....Today, for many, the pink triangle represents pride, solidarity, and a promise to never allow another Holocaust to happen again."
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Quote:
the G-man said:
This article states that the pink triangle is "one of the more popular...symbols for the gay community," used as "a popular symbol for the gay rights movement....Today, for many, the pink triangle represents pride, solidarity, and a promise to never allow another Holocaust to happen again."
The article is wrong then. As far as I've seen it's only special interest groups and social misfits (people who live only to declare thier gayness...freaks) that wear the triangle. Normal people, and people with a social concience wouldn't dare.
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Quote:
theory9 said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
I realize we're getting off topic, but your comment really confused me. Christianity is inclusive
There are far too many posters who do not portray their faith as inclusive but rather exclusive.
Bingo.
And I would say that far too many people who don't portray their faith as inclusive, but rather exclusive.
What exactly do you guys mean by inclusive vs. exclusive? Christianity is both. Pardon the over-simplification, but it's such that anyone can join, but that doesn't mean anyone can count them selves a Christian. In the scriptures there are many stories of people coming to Jesus and asking if they can follow Him and he says yes to all of them as long as they do "this or that depnding on the story" So while Jesus is willing to include anyone who wants to he excludes anyone unwiling to do or believe certain things.
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
klinton said:
The article is wrong then. As far as I've seen it's only special interest groups and social misfits (people who live only to declare thier gayness...freaks) that wear the triangle. Normal people, and people with a social concience wouldn't dare.
Agreed.
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Pariah said:
BUT AS I SAID ALREADY!!
I realize that straight couples do that shit too, but homosexuals are the strongest proponent voice of it, thus I focus on them and their vehemence.
When I've denounced sodomy, I've never absolutey confined its context to homosexuals, but all human beings in general. We'd all know this if you read what I said.
Why don't you go stick your dick in a light socket. Tell us about the health implications when you're done.
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Jim Jackson said:
What's yer point? Nice history lesson for those who didn't know about it already. But it doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen anybody in Columbus, OH, wearing a pink triangle.
I haven't seen anyone in San Francisco wearing one either. Rainbow flags fly all over The City, especially as we get ready for Pride Weekend. I've not seen a single pink triangle on Castro St. or anywhere else.
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
Why don't you go stick your dick in a light socket. Tell us about the health implications when you're done.
I would, but I stopped caring about this thread awhile ago when it got apparent no one was listening. Maybe I'll get back to it later though.
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Pariah said:
it got apparent no one was listening.
Do you really feel that way? I was listening, I just found nothing you said to justify making gay marriage illegal. It might support your personal reasons for not wanting to have anal sex....but not enough to endorse sweeping legislation that makes gay marriage illegal. You have to have more facts, and less emotion to apply your opinions to an entire group of people.
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I don't understand the point G-Man is making though...
that the pink triangle somehow isn't bad?
That it's accepted as some mainstream "gay symbol" which it isn't.
Does that then excuse this guy wanting to require the public labeling of homosexuals in a negative way?
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
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Quote:
That it's accepted as some mainstream "gay symbol" which it isn't.
Hold on, before I go and make a total ass out of someone, are you saying that the pink triangle IS NOT accepted as a mainstream gay symbol?
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
klinton said:
The article is wrong then. As far as I've seen it's only special interest groups and social misfits (people who live only to declare thier gayness...freaks) that wear the triangle. Normal people, and people with a social concience wouldn't dare.
Agreed.
I disagree and actually know some people who have worn the pink triangle. They aren't freaks & do have lives. 
The pink triangle seems to have been replaced by rainbows but during the 80's (when it was the straight people calling gay people freaks & not the other way around) the triangle was worn. Some of you obviously were either too young or doing other things to know what it was like to be gay & out at that time.
G-man, it shouldn't matter if gays do or don't wear a symbol. It's whole nother matter being forced to wear one. Would you say the same thing about the Star of David?
Fair play!
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
That it's accepted as some mainstream "gay symbol" which it isn't.
Hold on, before I go and make a total ass out of someone, are you saying that the pink triangle IS NOT accepted as a mainstream gay symbol?
Whether it's accepted as a manisteram symbol or not is debatable. Jim says it's not, Mem says it is. That however wasn't the point of my post. The point was if it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way.
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:G-man, it shouldn't matter if gays do or don't wear a symbol. It's whole nother matter being forced to wear one. Would you say the same thing about the Star of David?
Of course. I was simply noting that it was now, to my knowledge, a "badge of pride" to many gays I'd seen or known. I wasn't implying that this was a negative or positive thing either way.
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Quote:
unrestrained id said:
Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
That it's accepted as some mainstream "gay symbol" which it isn't.
Hold on, before I go and make a total ass out of someone, are you saying that the pink triangle IS NOT accepted as a mainstream gay symbol?
Whether it's accepted as a manisteram symbol or not is debatable. Jim says it's not, Mem says it is. That however wasn't the point of my post. The point was if it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way.
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
No of course they shouldn't be required to be labled, but you can't shirk away from something you said just because it wasn't your main point.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Do you really feel that way? I was listening, I just found nothing you said to justify making gay marriage illegal. It might support your personal reasons for not wanting to have anal sex....but not enough to endorse sweeping legislation that makes gay marriage illegal. You have to have more facts, and less emotion to apply your opinions to an entire group of people.
I'd tell you to read what I said again, but you'd just miss the point again--Not just you mind you.
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wannabuyamonkey said:
No of course they shouldn't be required to be labled, but you can't shirk away from something you said just because it wasn't your main point.
OH FER CHRISSAKES......
Listen. As far as I can see from my vantage point outside the gay community, I haven't seen it used as a symbol that is used proudly. The rainbow, yes, pink triangles? no.
If mem says it is then I'd have to reconsider it. I initially said it wasn't used as a gay symbol based on my own limited observations (going to gay festivals and a couple of gay clubs and parties with gay friends) as well as the statements from Jim Jackson. So based on mem's assertions to the contrary, I'm willing to reconsider that assertion. Is that clear enough?
I hope so. Because at this point, repeatedly bringin the conversation back to that point at the expense of answering the question i've asked several times already, is starting to look like evasion.
So once again..... do you think it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way. Do you find this Christian Coalition guy um.... sane? fair? bigoted? A Nazi?
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush
I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice
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Quote:
the G-man said:
You previously asked the basis for my assertion that "a fair number of gays now wear pink triangles as a badge of honor."
This article states that the pink triangle is "one of the more popular...symbols for the gay community," used as "a popular symbol for the gay rights movement....Today, for many, the pink triangle represents pride, solidarity, and a promise to never allow another Holocaust to happen again."
I currently live in Santa Fe, NM and previously lived in the Bay Area--my experience has been that you're more likely to see "the rainbow" then "the triangle".
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Quote:
magicjay38 said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
What's yer point? Nice history lesson for those who didn't know about it already. But it doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen anybody in Columbus, OH, wearing a pink triangle.
I haven't seen anyone in San Francisco wearing one either. Rainbow flags fly all over The City, especially as we get ready for Pride Weekend. I've not seen a single pink triangle on Castro St. or anywhere else.
The Rainbow...yeah, I do see that here in Columbus. Flags, bumper stickers, etc.
But no pink triangles.
We all wear a green carnation.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
That it's accepted as some mainstream "gay symbol" which it isn't.
Hold on, before I go and make a total ass out of someone, are you saying that the pink triangle IS NOT accepted as a mainstream gay symbol?
Based on my own experience, I have to say yes.
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So, to sum up, it seems like the pink triangle is a gay pride symbol for some gays, but not others.
Not unlike how some Christians put "Jesus Fish" on their cars and others don't.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
magicjay38 said:
Why don't you go stick your dick in a light socket. Tell us about the health implications when you're done.
I would, but I stopped caring about this thread awhile ago when it got apparent no one was listening. Maybe I'll get back to it later though.
I read most of what you said and not the rest once you started to become reepetitive. I find your arguments specious and ill-informed. I find you are speaking about issues that are far too foreign to you for your remarks on them to be worthy of serious consideration.
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And I find that talk is cheap. I actually bothered to go over the long laundry list of arguments everyone slew at me. The least you could do if you want to "inform" me is respond in kind.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
And I find that talk is cheap. I actually bothered to go over the long laundry list of arguments everyone slew at me. The least you could do if you want to "inform" me is respond in kind.
Be that as it may, I have given up trying to educate you on these issues. You do not give the impression as someone who wants to listen.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Pariah said:
squeek squeeker squeeeek squeeekinnn squeak
Be that as it may, I have given up trying to blah blah blah...
No you haven't. And this is off topic, watch for G-Man.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Be that as it may, I have given up trying to educate you on these issues. You do not give the impression as someone who wants to listen.
I'll take a page outta Wanna's book:
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Quote:
unrestrained id said:
So once again..... do you think it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way. Do you find this Christian Coalition guy um.... sane? fair? bigoted? A Nazi?
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
And i'd have to add, it's rather sad if not telling that this question wasn't answered immediately and resoundingly over 24 hours ago.
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Be that as it may, I have given up trying to educate you on these issues. You do not give the impression as someone who wants to listen.
I'll take a page outta Wanna's book:
Dude, I at least have experienced the gay issues that to you are nothing but abstract concepts and ideas.
You don't see me talking about the internal workings of the Church, do you? Or physics? I have no training or experiential bases in these areas. Food for your thought, man.
Last edited by Jim Jackson; 2005-06-17 11:44 AM.
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Quote:
unrestrained id said:
Quote:
unrestrained id said:
So once again..... do you think it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way. Do you find this Christian Coalition guy um.... sane? fair? bigoted? A Nazi?
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
And i'd have to add, it's rather sad if not telling that this question wasn't answered immediately and resoundingly over 24 hours ago.
From where I sat, I saw it the answer as a very obvious NO. It's not acceptable, it's certainly not necessary. In fact, it's evil for anyone to think that gay people require a label.
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Quote:
unrestrained id said:
Quote:
unrestrained id said:
So once again..... do you think it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way. Do you find this Christian Coalition guy um.... sane? fair? bigoted? A Nazi?
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
And i'd have to add, it's rather sad if not telling that this question wasn't answered immediately and resoundingly over 24 hours ago.
I answered that question, but i guess you don't care. You'd rather assume that the neocon conspiracy is tellingly silent on this issue. Of course it's not acceptable to make anyone wear identifying labels like that.
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:
Quote:
unrestrained id said:
Quote:
unrestrained id said:
So once again..... do you think it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way. Do you find this Christian Coalition guy um.... sane? fair? bigoted? A Nazi?
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
And i'd have to add, it's rather sad if not telling that this question wasn't answered immediately and resoundingly over 24 hours ago.
I answered that question, but i guess you don't care. You'd rather assume that the neocon conspiracy is tellingly silent on this issue. Of course it's not acceptable to make anyone wear identifying labels like that.
He may have missed your post. I haven't been able to see the newest posts on this thread for some reason & missed yours myself. I was kinda wondering the same thing as Unrestrained myself. Not that I can seriously see anybody on this board saying "yeah, let's brand them!" Even the guy in the article that brings up the cigs are bad for you & so is homosexuality comparison says he wasn't for gays somehow being marked. He does however want everybody to know it's bad to be gay. His reasoning is f-ed up obviously. He sights one study (produced by an extremely biased group). Then speaks of homosexuals & doesn't acknowledge that about half our population includes women. Lesbians have one of the lowest rates of infection (if not the lowest) These type of things bug me anyway because it avoids the simple fact that people who don't value or like themselves tend to indulge in lots of sex & risky behavior. The answer isn't to try to turn back the clock. You might be able to get rid of the Pride parades & benefits for same sex partners but gay people would still be there. And a gay son or daughter would surely be less likely to speak of their homosexuality to the folks.
Fair play!
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Whether the pink triangle is a positive symbol or not, it did lead to the Weezer song Pink Triangle, which is fun, bittersweet little rock tune.
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Humans LOVE to label other humans. It's at the very heart of our nature, so that we can understand and process information quickly.
As for me, I prefer labels such as " Dry Clean Only" , " Cold water, medium heat in dryer ", or " No Bleach. "
Labels just keep us from taking others seriously.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
Humans LOVE to label other humans. It's at the very heart of our nature, so that we can understand and process information quickly.
As for me, I prefer labels such as " Dry Clean Only" , " Cold water, medium heat in dryer ", or " No Bleach. "
Labels just keep us from taking others seriously.
I think it's an interesting point re: how people label each other. Labeling is useful in the sense that it saves people time in casual conversation from having to ask a litany of questions about the person. For example, if you know someone has grown up in Beverly Hills, you can assume they're pretty well off--and so on. Everyone uses paradigms.
What is disturbing is the types of filters that people put in place. I believe strongly in the merits of an individual--how they conduct themselves, how they contribute to society--leaving everything else as relatively extraneous (I say "relatively" because understanding peoples' backgrounds is an important thing with regard to how they became who they are, but not more important then the present). When people look past merit in favor of race, sexual orientation and the like, I've found I'm often in the presence of a weak, fearful mind.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,030
6000+ posts
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Labeling people serves as a kind of cognitive shorthand. It allows us to remember larger-scale aspects of a person rather than *all* the aspects.
We all wear a green carnation.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,680
1500+ posts
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Matter-eater Man said:
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wannabuyamonkey said:
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unrestrained id said:
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unrestrained id said:
So once again..... do you think it's acceptable to require gays to label themselves publicly and in a negative way. Do you find this Christian Coalition guy um.... sane? fair? bigoted? A Nazi?
I'd like to hear that point being adressed.
And i'd have to add, it's rather sad if not telling that this question wasn't answered immediately and resoundingly over 24 hours ago.
I answered that question, but i guess you don't care. You'd rather assume that the neocon conspiracy is tellingly silent on this issue. Of course it's not acceptable to make anyone wear identifying labels like that.
He may have missed your post. I haven't been able to see the newest posts on this thread for some reason & missed yours myself. .
I was starting to think I was the only one having that problem. I found that even hitting refresh wont work, you have to use the jump to new posts link (which only shows up when there are new posts and goes bye-bye when you refresh before reading new posts.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Posts: 1,680
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Don't remember what page it was on anymore, but to go back to something JJ said about doubting Christians are persecuted in the US, I just saw a post from a friend on another board and it reminded me that yes, Christians are persecuted in the US in this day and age.
By the way don't forget the persecuted people in America.
How about the school shootings? The Columbine shootings and also the most recent on an Indian Resevation. What state was that?
Anway in both incidents the shooters asked the other studens, "Do you believe in God?" I do believe the kids said yes, and then they got shot. I know for certain the Columbine killers were into Satanism, so that type of persection does happen here in America. Funny, why did they want to take prayer out of schools? I bet you if we did have prayer in schools these type of shooting would have been avoided. You never heard of anything like that happening in schools when prayer was allowed.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,680
1500+ posts
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,680 |
Quote:
Batwoman said:
Don't remember what page it was on anymore, but to go back to something JJ said about doubting Christians are persecuted in the US, I just saw a post from a friend on another board and it reminded me that yes, Christians are persecuted in the US in this day and age.
Quote:
By the way don't forget the persecuted people in America.
How about the school shootings? The Columbine shootings and also the most recent on an Indian Resevation. What state was that?
Anway in both incidents the shooters asked the other studens, "Do you believe in God?" I do believe the kids said yes, and then they got shot. I know for certain the Columbine killers were into Satanism, so that type of persection does happen here in America. Funny, why did they want to take prayer out of schools? I bet you if we did have prayer in schools these type of shooting would have been avoided. You never heard of anything like that happening in schools when prayer was allowed.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
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Your death will make me king! 15000+ posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 22,618 |
That whole argument is quite silly.
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