RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events The generic Gay thread

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Dan Savage said:

Oh, and while we're on the subject of bisexuality...

The splashy results of a study conducted at Northwestern University in Illinois and the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto made the newspapers last week. Researchers recruited 101 men—38 guys who said they were homos, 33 guys who said they were bi, and 30 guys who said they were straight—and showed them porn in attempt to answer that age-old question: Are bi guys all liars? The guys' dicks were wired up, they were shown girl-on-girl porn and boy-on-boy porn, and their arousal levels were measured.

"Three quarters of the [bisexual] group had arousal patterns identical to those of gay men," the New York Times reported. "The rest were indistinguishable from heterosexuals." In English: 75 percent of the bi guys only got aroused watching boys; the other 25 percent of the bi guys only got aroused watching girls. None responded equally to images of men and women.

So what does it all mean?

"We couldn't find a bisexual arousal pattern," Gerulf Rieger, the study's lead author, told me. "The conclusion that I draw is that most of the men who identify as bisexual behave like gay men in their arousal patterns. Does that mean [75 percent of bisexual guys] are truly gay? I can't say. But it could mean they are confused about their sexual orientation."

That some men who ultimately identify as gay claim to be bisexual for a time is a well established fact, so it's entirely possible that the 75 percent of the bisexuals whose dicks were wired up in Rieger's study are on their way to embracing their big, gay selves. But what, I wonder, is up with the 25 percent of bisexual guys in the study who responded to the girl-on-girl porn but not the boy-on-boy porn? There's no such thing as a closeted straight guy, so what exactly is up with them?

"They might be straight," Rieger speculated, "but go in for sex with other guys because it's so much easier for a male to have quick sex with another male than with a woman. But their true sexual feelings are still for women."

Needless to say, Rieger's study has kicked off a shitstorm. The study was co-authored by Dr. J. Michael Bailey, a professor of psychology at Northwestern University and the author of The Man Who Would Be Queen: The Science of Gender-Bending and Transsexualism, a book many homos feel is deeply homo- and trans-phobic. John Aravosis has been kicking the shit out of Bailey, and the study, on his influential blog, AMERICAblog.org.

Rieger, however, rejects the notion that Bailey hates homos. "It's very hard for me to be subjective when I hear that criticism," said Rieger. "I'm very fond of Michael Bailey. I'm his grad student and I'm gay. He is not homophobic."

Bailey's myriad issues aside, I don't think the study can be dismissed out of hand. At the very least it jibes with, er, field observations I've made of male bisexuals. The sad fact is that male bisexuality is rare, much more so than female bisexuality. While there are a lot of guys out there having bisexual experiences—probably more than ever, God bless them—there's a difference between someone's true sexual orientation and their sexual capabilities. A lot of guys like STUD—predominantly straight guys who enjoy messing around with other guys—will tell you they're bi. But these nominally bisexual men are not emotionally available to other men—in other words, these guys may have sex with other guys, but, like STUD, they only have relationships with women. Which is why dating bi guys isn't something most gay men are willing to do. Even if the bi guy you're dating is single, you're still just his piece on the side.

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Saturday, July 30, 2005


LOVE IN ACTION CO-FOUNDER: 'MY MINISTRY SHATTERS LIVES '

by Wayne Besen


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Saturday, July 30, 2005

CO-FOUNDER OF MINISTRY THAT RUNS TEEN 'EX-GAY' BOOT CAMP SAYS GROUP SHATTERS LIVES AND CAN CAUSE SUICIDE

Love In Action Co-Founder John Evans Unveils Powerful Letter Rebuking 'Ex-Gay' Ministries

NEW YORK - Author Wayne Besen released an explosive letter today by Love In Action's co-Founder and former ex-gay John Evans, which rebukes gay conversion groups saying that they "shattered lives". The group he started has recently made headlines because it runs a boot camp for gay teens called "Refuge" that tries to turn adolescents heterosexual, often against their will.

"In the past 30 years since leaving the 'ex-gay' ministry I have seen nothing but shattered lives, depression and even suicide among those connected with the 'ex-gay' movement," Evans writes in his letter to John Smid, Love In Action's current director. "I challenge Christians to investigate all sides of the issue of being gay and Christian. The Church has been wrong in the past regarding moral issues and I'm sure there will be more before Christ returns."

Evans, a gay man, founded what may be the first modern ex-gay group in San Raphael, Calif. in 1973, along with a heterosexual preacher Kent Philpott. Evans left his life partner of ten years to start the gay conversion group. He later dropped out after he realized it didn't work and his best friend committed suicide because he could not turn heterosexual.

"Having the founder of Love In Action step forward to admonish the ministry he started speaks to the utter hopelessness and futility of these groups, not to mention the danger they represent," said Wayne Besen, Author of Anything But Straight: Unmasking the Scandals and Lies Behind the Ex-Gay Myth (Haworth, 2003). "Most disturbing are the compulsory gay boot camps for teens which are tantamount to child abuse. They should immediately be shut down."

In May, 16-year old Zach told his fundamentalist Christian parents that he is gay. Horrified by the news, they vowed to fix him by sending him to an "ex-gay" boot camp in Memphis to be reprogrammed. Like a modern day message in a bottle, Zach used his Internet blog to send an SOS.

"I told my parents I was gay," he wrote. "This didn't go over very well," and "They tell me that there is something psychologically wrong with me, and they 'raised me wrong.' Today, my mother, father and I had a very long talk in my room, where they let me know I am to apply for a fundamentalist Christian program for gays."

The next day, Zach threw another bottle into the Cyber-sea.

"It's like boot camp. If I do come out straight, I'll be so mentally unstable and depressed it won't matter."

Besen is a nationally recognized advocate for gay and lesbian rights. He has been a guest on leading news and political talk shows. He made international news when he photographed "ex-gay" poster boy and Love in Action graduate John Paulk cruising a gay bar in Washington, D.C.

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FULL TEXT OF LETTER

July 30, 2005

Love In Action
ATTN: John Smid, Director
Memphis, TN

Dear Mr. Smid:

We as born again Christians believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. We Basically agree on the fundamentals of salvation. I've been a born again Christian for over 50 years and I've noticed Christians reading the same scriptural passages, yet arriving at different personal interpretations regarding moral issues. Some of these issues that have divided Christians within recent years have been slavery, women's rights, the Charismatic movement and other issues, including divorce.

Within my lifetime, I've known members of my own family being asked to leave churches they had attended for years over issues of divorce and re-marriage, yet later welcomed back when a different interpretation of scripture was explained.

Today, the subject of homosexuality is being discussed among Christians. Most Christians find the subject too uncomfortable to make a personal investigation, but rely upon the traditional Christian condemnation of homosexuality. There are more scriptures dealing with divorce than homosexuality, yet, today, Christians give each other the freedom of personal interpretation regarding divorce. I'm sure homosexuality will be added to the long list of disagreements among Christians.

In 1973, when I helped organize the "ex-gay" ministry called Love In Action, I admit I had never heard of a different view of homosexuality or made an effort to research the issue. I held to the traditional Christian condemnation that all homosexuality was sinful.

One day, I read a booklet by Dr. Ralph Blair called, "An Evangelical Look At Homosexuality." I prayed before reading this booklet and was shocked, yet refreshed, because I had never heard such remarks regarding this subject from another Evangelical Christian.

I wrote Ralph Blair that I would like to discuss his views regarding this matter and his return letter informed me he could meet with me at my home in San Raphael, Calif. The night he arrived I invited several of my friends who were also involved with Love in Action to join us. We studied the scriptures dealing with homosexuality. I had struggled most of my life with this matter and I would continue to try to be "ex-gay" if it were God's will. Over the past 30 years I have studied both sides of this subject and now know it's not my sexual orientation that's wrong or sinful. But one should allow the Holy Spirit to guide his or her life whatever one's sexual orientation. I challenge other Christians to study the scriptures to show yourself approved unto God and don't be afraid to challenge the traditional condemnation of homosexuality.

The Church has been wrong in the past regarding other issues and I'm sure there will be others before Jesus returns. I know my views regarding homosexuality and being Christian does not agree with most Christians and I've been accused of being "deceived and tricked by the Devil."

God alone knows my heart and Jesus Christ means too much to me to go against the leading of the Holy Spirit as he guides me as a born again Christian. Someday, each of us will stand alone before God to give an account of our lives and I want Him to be satisfied with me.

I just returned from the 25th annual Conference of Evangelicals Concerned, a group of gay Christians who know that it is possible to be both gay and Christian. In the past 30 years since leaving the "ex-gay" ministry I have seen nothing but shattered lives, depression and even suicide among those connected with the "ex-gay" movement.

At the E.C. conference I met gay Christians who have an even closer relationship with Jesus. The Holy Spirit seemed to hover over the entire conference. The closing communion service seemed as if Jesus Himself was there saying, "Come to me all who labor and are laden with the burden of trying to conform to the impossible conclusions of others, and I will give you rest."

Again, I challenge Christians to investigate all sides of the issue of being gay and Christian. The Church has been wrong in the past regarding moral issues and I'm sure there will be more before Christ returns.

Love in Christ,

John Evans
Original Member of Love In Action, 1973

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James "molestor" Dobson says:

Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.

http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021043.cfm

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These are some twisted fuckers!

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magicjay38 said:
That's at 8th & Market isn't it? Good neighborhood to score dope! Jones St. where if you're not tweekin' yer jonesn'.

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r3x29yz4a said:

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magicjay38 said:
That's at 8th & Market isn't it? Good neighborhood to score dope! Jones St. where if you're not tweekin' yer jonesn'.

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actually, it's 7th and Market is the one I live near. The first Carl's Jr. pictured is by Powell.

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unrestrained id said:
How to keep your son "straight" according to Focus on the Family's james Dobson:

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James "molestor" Dobson says:

Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.

http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021043.cfm

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These are some twisted fuckers!

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Jim Jackson said:

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unrestrained id said:
How to keep your son "straight" according to Focus on the Family's james Dobson:

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James "molestor" Dobson says:

Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.

http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021043.cfm

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These are some twisted fuckers!

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I think Dobson's a closet queer.

He juxtaposes a dad taking his son into the shower (WTF?) with "pounding" pegs in the sentence before. Freud wasn't a nut.

I can tell you this...if I'd had a son and had taken him into the shower, my wife would have had us in marital counseling immediately even before she knew I was gay.

I mean, Dobson's suggestions are ridiculous. My wife didn't take our daughters into the shower with her to show them anything.

And dad's taking sons into showers? Man, that's a major aspect of a lot of gay erotica.

Dads out there: kids will see that you have a penis. Kids are just naturally curious. No need to take them into a shower and make a big deal out of it. Jeff Foxworthy has a routine in his show about his daughters wanting to see his "hoo hah." Boys, girls, it doesn't matter. They're curious and they'll find ways to see you. Don't sweat it. But there's no need to be so overt about it as to take them into the shower.

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Any dads out there, you can take me into the shower! I promise to be a good, VERY good, little boy! May I play with your cyclops, Daddy?

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unrestrained id said:
From the moment he mentions "rough and tumble games, playing with balls, pounding pegs in holes, up to the shower bit, the whole thing comes of as highly homoeortic.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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unrestrained id said:
From the moment he mentions "rough and tumble games, playing with balls, pounding pegs in holes, up to the shower bit, the whole thing comes of as highly homoeortic.

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Well you better clean off your keyboard now.

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you always assume mastubation. why is that?

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r3x29yz4a said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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unrestrained id said:
From the moment he mentions "rough and tumble games, playing with balls, pounding pegs in holes, up to the shower bit, the whole thing comes of as highly homoeortic.

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Well you better clean off your keyboard now.

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you always assume mastubation. why is that?

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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r3x29yz4a said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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unrestrained id said:
From the moment he mentions "rough and tumble games, playing with balls, pounding pegs in holes, up to the shower bit, the whole thing comes of as highly homoeortic.

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Well you better clean off your keyboard now.

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you always assume mastubation. why is that?

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Acctually in that case based on his descrption of his reaction to reading the article, I assumed pre-mature ejaculation.

I'm now going to sit back and prepare myself for one of those hillarious jokes you keep telling me about.

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r3x29yz4a said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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r3x29yz4a said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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unrestrained id said:
From the moment he mentions "rough and tumble games, playing with balls, pounding pegs in holes, up to the shower bit, the whole thing comes of as highly homoeortic.

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Well you better clean off your keyboard now.

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you always assume mastubation. why is that?

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Acctually in that case based on his descrption of his reaction to reading the article, I assumed pre-mature ejaculation.

I'm now going to sit back and prepare myself for one of those hillarious jokes you keep telling me about.

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A guy walks into a bar with jumper cables. The bartender says, "You can come in, but don't start anything!"

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You win!

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Tuesday, August 23, 2005


The California Supreme Court broke new legal ground for same-sex parents Monday by ruling that lesbian and gay partners who plan a family and raise a child together should be considered legal parents after a breakup, with the same rights and responsibilities as heterosexual parents.

Three weeks after issuing a precedent-setting decision banning business discrimination against domestic partners, the justices took another step toward equal treatment for the tens of thousands of California households headed by same-sex couples. The court became the first in the nation to grant full parental status to same-sex partners regardless of their marital status or biological connection with their children.

"We perceive no reason why both parents of a child cannot be women,'' said Justice Carlos Moreno, writing for the majority in three related rulings issued Monday.

It was a bold statement by a normally cautious court -- although, as Moreno pointed out, the Legislature said essentially the same thing in a new law that gave domestic partners most of the same rights as spouses, including parental rights. Monday's rulings went a step further and granted parental status to members of couples who had separated before the law took effect in January.

In each of the three cases, the court said, lesbian partners had cooperated in conceiving and rearing children in a family setting and, thus, were both legal parents -- entitling them to visitation over an ex-partner's objections and requiring them to pay child support. The ruling would apply equally to gay men who agreed to raise a child together.

Quoting county government officials who argued for child support in one of the cases, the court said, "A person who actively participates in bringing children into the world, takes the children into her home and holds them out as her own, and receives and enjoys the benefits of parenthood, should be responsible for the support of those children -- regardless of gender or sexual orientation.''

Courts in other states have granted visitation and other parental rights to same-sex partners who had bonded with their child, ruling that such a nurturing adult may be considered a "psychological parent'' even if not biologically related to the child.

But those rulings did not establish full parent-child relationships, which include such rights as inheritance, Social Security and health insurance coverage for children as well as custody and visitation for parents.

Monday's rulings are the first in the nation to recognize complete parental status for same-sex partners who raise a child together, said Shannon Minter, legal director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, which took part in all three cases.

"This is one of those moments of legal history in the making,'' he said. "The decisions are going to be important not just in California but across the country.''

The court did not discuss same-sex marriage, an issue it may address next year in lawsuits by gay and lesbian couples and the city of San Francisco challenging the constitutionality of a state law that defines marriage as the union of a man and a woman.

Those suits could be derailed, however, by initiatives now in circulation that would lock the ban on same-sex marriage into the state Constitution and also repeal the newly established domestic-partner rights. A lawyer who opposed the expansion of parental rights in the three cases called Monday's rulings "another stepping-stone for same-sex marriage'' that showed the need for action by the voters.

"By saying that children can have two moms, the court has undermined the family'' and has "underscored the importance of amending California's Constitution to preserve marriage as one man and one woman,'' said attorney Mathew Staver of Liberty Counsel. He added, however, that the proposed initiatives probably wouldn't affect Monday's rulings, which focused on parent- child relationships rather than the couples' marital status or gender.

"These rulings recognize that these children have the same rights as the children of opposite-sex couples in maintaining ties to the people who helped raise them and presumably love them,'' said Tom Dresslar, spokesman for Attorney General Bill Lockyer, whose office argued for parental status in the case of a lesbian mother seeking child support. "The rulings also properly recognize the diverse nature of family relationships in today's world.''

The rulings represent a change of course for California courts, which have generally regarded only biological parents as legal parents, regularly citing the state Supreme Court's statement in 1993 that a child can have only one natural mother.

But Moreno, in one of Monday's rulings, said the 1993 observation in a surrogate-parent case was meant only to resolve claims between two women -- the surrogate parent and the childless wife who signed the surrogacy contract -- and did not preclude recognition of two lesbian parents.

Each of the cases in Monday's decisions identified the plaintiffs and defendants by their initials to protect their children's privacy.

In the case handled by Lockyer, partners Elisa B. and Emily B. had children in 1997 and 1998, respectively, using the same sperm donor, and raised them together before separating in 1999. Elisa agreed to provide financial support whenever she could for her stay-at-home partner's twins -- one of them seriously ill -- but stopped making payments 18 months after the couple separated.

Reversing a lower-court ruling, the Supreme Court said Elisa was a legal parent of the children she had helped to plan and raise, and must pay $1,815 a month in child support. El Dorado County sued Elisa for support after Emily applied for welfare.

"We were doing everything we possibly could to form a family,'' Emily B. said at a news conference after the ruling. Noting that children of an opposite-sex couple would clearly have been entitled to support in the same situation, she said the court recognized the needs of "children who were invisible.''

Elisa B.'s lawyer was unavailable for comment.

In a second case, the court said a Los Angeles woman, Kristine H., was bound by a pre-birth agreement she signed with her partner, Lisa R., saying both would be parents of the child Kristine was carrying. After their split nearly two years after the baby was born, Kristine opposed Lisa's request for visitation and custody, but the court said Kristine had taken the benefits of the agreement -- Lisa's initial help in raising the child -- and must accept the burdens.

Both those rulings were unanimous, but the court split 4-2 in a third case. A Marin County woman, Kim M., donated eggs to her partner that were fertilized by an anonymous donor and resulted in the birth of twin girls in December 1995. The couple raised the children together for more than five years before separating. The birth mother, E.G., then took the twins to Massachusetts, and Kim M. sued for parental rights.

A state appeals court ruled last year that E.G. was the girls' sole parent, noting that Kim M. had signed a prenatal agreement waiving parental rights. But the Supreme Court majority said the agreement -- which Kim M. claimed she signed under pressure -- was not binding because Kim M. was a biological parent and because the partners had always intended to raise the children together.

In dissent, Justice Kathryn Mickle Werdegar said the ruling disregards the partners' intentions, violates E.G.'s right to choose to be a single parent and calls into question the validity of many pre-birth agreements. One member of a couple who donates eggs to her partner may now be regarded as a parent in the future regardless of her intentions, Werdegar said.

E.G.'s lawyer, Diana Richmond, said the ruling jeopardizes sperm donors as well as egg donors. "It foists responsibility on people who weren't really willing to commit to be parents,'' she said.

The cases are Elisa B. vs. Superior Court, S125912; Kristine H. vs. Lisa R., S126945; and K.M. vs. E.G., S125643.

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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r3x29yz4a said:

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wannabuyamonkey said:

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unrestrained id said:
From the moment he mentions "rough and tumble games, playing with balls, pounding pegs in holes, up to the shower bit, the whole thing comes of as highly homoeortic.

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Well you better clean off your keyboard now.

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you always assume mastubation. why is that?

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Acctually in that case based on his descrption of his reaction to reading the article, I assumed pre-mature ejaculation.

I'm now going to sit back and prepare myself for one of those hillarious jokes you keep telling me about.

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Some derisively call the candidate a homo, and others blast him for being a closet homosexual, as though being gay was a crime.

You might be surprised to see that every single one of these people blasting Republican David Dreier for reportedly being gay is a liberal

A debonair New York socialite filed a $5 million legal notice against the Catholic Church yesterday — claiming his molestation at age 7 at the hands of a young priest led him to become gay.

J. David Enright IV — a scion of Albany's renowned Van Rensselaer and de la Grange families — said he was repeatedly sexually abused by the Rev. Joseph Romano, a seminarian counselor at upstate Camp Tekawitha on Lake Luzerne, in 1961 and 1962.

"I believe that my life would be very different now," said Enright, 51, dressed in a custom-made English suit and French cuffed shirt. "I'd probably be married, living in Greenwich, with four children in boarding school.

"Romano bent my life."

The Upper East Side resident said Romano, then 21, took him behind a cabin after dinner and evening prayers and engaged in sex. The molestation was repeated up to seven more times, extending into the following summer, Enright said.

He'd "explain to me that this was a rite of passage," said Enright, who recalls the "devastating" abuse every day of his life.

Enright made his mark in New York City as a young ad man. In 1982, he landed a $5 million annual account for David Merrick's Broadway production of "42nd Street."

"I had a completely straight life in business, socially on Park Avenue and Fifth Avenue," he said, noting that he dated women in the 1980s. "Then there was the other world, which was slinking around in Greenwich Village gay bars, finding mates."

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the G-man said:
UNHOLY WAY TO TURN GAY

A debonair New York socialite filed a $5 million legal notice against the Catholic Church yesterday, claiming his molestation at age 7 at the hands of a young priest led him to become gay...


"I believe that my life would be very different now," said Enright, 51, dressed in a custom-made English suit and French cuffed shirt. "I'd probably be married, living in Greenwich, with four children in boarding school.

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Jim Jackson said:
Whatever. Believe what you want to believe about gays. You're a lost cause. Gays have been on earth since time immemorial and will be here until the sun sets on humanity.

I hope you and Pariah are very happy together.

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magicjay38 said:

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Jim Jackson said:
Whatever. Believe what you want to believe about gays. You're a lost cause. Gays have been on earth since time immemorial and will be here until the sun sets on humanity.

I hope you and Pariah are very happy together.

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I'm beginning to think the nature/nurture arguement is a red herring issue. Does it matter how you became gay or str8? Sexual orientation is a fundamental part of personality and one that rarely changes. You are who you are.

Wonder Boy thinks that homos are out recruiting str8 children to join them. I can't speak for you, Jim, but I don't recall anyone from Gay Services Recruiting ever knocking on my door. You try it, you like it.

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Jim Jackson said:
Whatever. Believe what you want to believe about gays. You're a lost cause. Gays have been on earth since time immemorial and will be here until the sun sets on humanity.

I hope you and Pariah are very happy together.

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magicjay38 said:

I'm beginning to think the nature/nurture arguement is a red herring issue. Does it matter how you became gay or str8? Sexual orientation is a fundamental part of personality and one that rarely changes. You are who you are.

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magicjay38 said:

Wonder Boy thinks that homos are out recruiting str8 children to join them. I can't speak for you, Jim, but I don't recall anyone from Gay Services Recruiting ever knocking on my door. You try it, you like it.

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magicjay38 said:


The social problems WB describes can just as easily be attributed to the discrimination suffered by a hated minority.

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Magicjay said:
If the plaintiff wanted to have a family, he certainly wasn't precluded from doing so. You and I have both been married and had children. He could have fulfilled his desires with a woman or a gay partner. He still can!

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Wonder Boy said:

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the G-man said:
UNHOLY WAY TO TURN GAY

A debonair New York socialite filed a $5 million legal notice against the Catholic Church yesterday, claiming his molestation at age 7 at the hands of a young priest led him to become gay...


"I believe that my life would be very different now," said Enright, 51, dressed in a custom-made English suit and French cuffed shirt. "I'd probably be married, living in Greenwich, with four children in boarding school.

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And proponents say homosexuality has no victims...



Add to that a higher incidence of sexually transmitted disease.
And an estimated 1 million prison rapes per year, in the United States alone.
And shortened average lifespans of gay men.
And self-ostracization, through indoctrination into a negative belief system that homosexuality is biological and not a choice.
And a higher rate of depression.
And a higher suicide rate, even in nations where homosexuality is fully endorsed.

All the things I said earlier (on page 5 and 6 of the topic).

I know there is a pro-gay opposition argument that attempts to de-bunk all these points, but I believe those arguments are only convincing to the fully indoctrinated.

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theory9 said:
Everything else aside, DTWB, prison rape is not a product of being homosexual--it's a product of extreme sexual desperation. I've gone a lot of friends behind bars who will atest to that.

Prison rape also works wells for intimidation and emasculation.

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Wonder Boy said:
To spin away a large statistic of gay men who rape other men, and spin it as a heterosexual problem, instead of the HOMOsexual problem that it truly is.

Heterosexual men don't get hard at the thought of another man's ass. Gay men do.

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klinton said:
Do they continue to seek the company of men after they are released from prison?

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Wonder Boy said:

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magicjay38 said:

I'm beginning to think the nature/nurture arguement is a red herring issue. Does it matter how you became gay or str8? Sexual orientation is a fundamental part of personality and one that rarely changes. You are who you are.

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That presumes homosexuality is inborn. I and others have argued that homosexuality is a choice.

You could just as easily argue that murder, rape, arson, gambling, alcoholism, kleptomania, child molestation, etc., are inborn and that people should not be disuaded from these behaviors.

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Wonder Boy said:

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magicjay38 said:

Wonder Boy thinks that homos are out recruiting str8 children to join them. I can't speak for you, Jim, but I don't recall anyone from Gay Services Recruiting ever knocking on my door. You try it, you like it.

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I think that some are. Perhaps many.
It just stands to reason, that gay culture, gay clubs and so forth, are a very promiscuous culture.

Really? Why?

By some of the reports I posted (in the Canada allows same-sex marriage topic, around pages 20-35 of the topic) gay culture is more promiscuous and centered around the thrill of illicit sex than heterosexual culture.

What is illicit about sex?

So logically that would mean pursuit of teens and children for sex.
Pursuit of teens certainly isn't unheard of in heterosexual culture. How much more so is it likely in a culture focused on the thrill of illicit sex ?

Sorry, you can't get there from here. Like str8s, some gay people are promiscuous, some aren't. I was very promiscuous when I was younger, almost exclusivly with women. My ideal now is one male and one female lover. Does that make me promiscuous?

BTW if you're going to cite a source not available in this thread, link it, please.

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magicjay38 said:

I don't commit any of those crimes you mentioned and I'm queer. I'd wager none of the other gay people on the board do either
Does alcoholism really belong in the same sentence as those other behaviours? It's a very common problem and not a crime.

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Magicjay said:



Sorry, you can't get there from here. Like str8s, some gay people are promiscuous, some aren't. I was very promiscuous when I was younger, almost exclusivly with women. My ideal now is one male and one female lover. Does that make me promiscuous?

BTW if you're going to cite a source not available in this thread, link it, please.

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Matter-eater Man said:
You must know some very interesting excon's. Most of them don't equate prison sex with homosexuality. (a prison population is about the most homophobic crowd you can find)

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theory9 said:
How much time have you spent behind bars, Pariah?

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