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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050504/lf_afp/usimmigrationvisa_050504073042
Quote:
Strict US visa policy scares away students, investors
WASHINGTON (AFP) - A teenage Asian girl with a valid student visa was handcuffed and deported for entering the United States five days earlier than stipulated, highlighting strict American immigration policy.
A 79-year-old British historian, who came to work at the US
Library of Congress on the life of US former chief diplomat Henry Kissinger, was herded on arrival in a wheelchair at Washington's Dulles airport to a small room facing a superintendent with a revolver in his hip for no apparent mistake.
Although all his travel papers were in order, "I was stopped and treated rather disgracefully," lamented Sir Alistair Horne at a conference in Washington Tuesday.
Stringent enforcement of US visa policy and seemingly overzealous immigration officers following the September 11, 2001 terror attacks are not only scaring away foreign students and tourists but dampening the investment climate of the world's richest nation and taking a toll on its economy, experts told the conference organized by the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Among the other cases cited to highlight the economic, security, scientific and diplomatic implications of changes in US visa policy were:
-- An international business conference in Hawaii had to be shifted to Hong Kong at the last minute because the organizers could not obtain travel papers for most of its participants, who were from China.
-- Some of US aviation giant Lockheed Martin Corporation's testing of its civil space activities have been delayed because visas could not be obtained on time for Russian scientists.
-- A company in northern Illinois waited in vain for seven months for its prospective buyers from China to get a visa to inspect its products and close a multi million dollar sale. Eventually the company became bankrupt and was auctioned off.
According to one private sector study, US businesses lost nearly 31 billion dollars in sales between 2002 and 2004 because foreign executives could not get into the United States to purchase American goods and services or attend trade shows.
From 2003 to 2004, there was a roughly 30 percent decline in the number of applicants for US graduate programs and correspondingly 20 percent decline in admissions, university figures showed.
The situation is critical and requires the personal intervention of
President George W. Bush, former defense secretary Frank Carlucci told the conference.
He said Bush should act to stop further erosion of US popularity overseas.
"It is part and parcel of the anti-Americanism around the world and if the President is serious about addressing that, in that context, he has to address visa policy," Carlucci said.
"President Bush can demonstrate leadership and demonstrate that the country is not anti-foreigner and that we are not closing the gates and he can encourage the bureaucracy to make sense out of a patchwork quilt -- it is slowly coming together but needs to come together much faster."
Lockheed Martin's corporate international business development vice-president Richard Kirkland said "what is important is predictability and process" of getting approval for visas.
Nearly 100 percent of aerospace programs in the United States involve some form of foreign participation or content, he said.
"America's post-9/11 visa policy is threatening our country's economic security, and reforms are needed to boost US exports, maintain our technological leadership and create jobs," said Don Manzalo, head of the small business committee at the House of Representatives.
"Multinationals are setting up shop overseas to avoid our arbitrary visa process," said Monzalo, who is campaigning for a fast track visa program for companies.
He had brokered a deal between the United States and China earlier this year allowing executives to travel between the two countries under a single visa for 12 months instead of seeking new visas for each trip.
The Migration Policy Institute, an independent think tank which studies movement of people worldwide, said Tuesday it was convening a bipartisan panel of US lawmakers, business leaders and public policy and immigration experts to consider immigration reforms.
"Neither national security nor individual liberties can be properly safeguarded in the United States without sensible and effective immigration laws," said Lee Hamilton, among those who led a special commission that investigated the 2001 terror attacks.
William Webster, former CIA and FBI head, said by scaring away foreign students, "we are losing an opportunity for public diplomacy because the best ambassadors we can possibly have are these students."
Jordan's ambassador to Washington Karim Tawfiq Kawar said there had been a drop of more than 30 percent of students from the Arab world coming to the United States to study.
A survey showed 65 percent of students from six Middle East countries still wanted to study in the United States but "only one quarter of those who came here had a positive experience."
Thoughts?
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-05 2:14 AM.
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Keep it up.......keep the dirty arabs out. They are doing a great job.
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Quote:
PJP said:
Keep it up.......keep the dirty arabs out. They are doing a great job.
Racist comments aside, it's not just Arabs that are being kept out. It's keeping lots of other people out. And apparently, it's really hurting us in the process.
"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey
"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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it' not a racist comment.....arabs are scum that's a fact.....it's not hurting us and if people aren't being let in too fucking bad.
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Quote:
PJP said:
it' not a racist comment.....arabs are scum that's a fact.....
From past experiences, I don't suppose there's any point to trying to debate this with you, is there?
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it's not hurting us
Is that right?
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According to one private sector study, US businesses lost nearly 31 billion dollars in sales between 2002 and 2004 because foreign executives could not get into the United States to purchase American goods and services or attend trade shows.
That's OUR country's businesses losing that $31 billion on account of our visa policies. You still think they're not hurting us?
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-05 2:33 AM.
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"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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It's one private sectors survey and I betcha they are liberal.....wanna bet.
for the life of me I will never understand how you side with the very people that would see you incinerated if given the chance.
You want facts....ask Europe how the tourism industry has been for them has been since 9/11......they are what the french would call sans americans......and they can all go fuck themselves and I will tell that to my Greek brethren when I go there for 3 weeks this summer.
we don't need to be giving student visas out to foreigners.....let them go scratch.
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Quote:
PJP said:
It's one private sectors survey and I betcha they are liberal.....wanna bet.
Or it could be a non politically affiliated survey that's checking on something no one else is looking into. It's not specified, so we can't go making random assumptions about it.
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for the life of me I will never understand how you side with the very people that would see you incinerated if given the chance.
I've explained my reasons before. If you don't agree, there's nothing more to say about it.
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You want facts....ask Europe how the tourism industry has been for them has been since 9/11......they are what the french would call sans americans......and they can all go fuck themselves and I will tell that to my Greek brethren when I go there for 3 weeks this summer.
This isn't about American tourists in Europe. This is about foreign tourists either not being willing or able to come to the US, and not spending money here in the US that American citizens need to make a living, all on account of our visa policies. Or foreign investors not investing in American businesses.
You may not care about the rest of the world, but I figured you'd at least care about your fellow citizens who may depend on changes to our visa policies to either make a living or improve the entire country's economy.
You own a restaurant, right? Imagine if one of our travel or traffic regulations or whatever prevented customers from coming to your restaurant or ordering from it. Wouldn't you need those regulations changed in order to stay in business?
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-05 2:48 AM.
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"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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9/11 really turned a lot of us into a bunch of fearful pussies, didn't it?
From Washington Times interview with DeLay:
Mr. Hurt: Have you ever crossed the line of ethical behavior in terms of dealing with lobbyists, your use of government authority or with fundraising?
Mr. DeLay: Ever is a very strong word.
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Quote:
Paul Mandral said:
9/11 really turned a lot of us into a bunch of fearful pussies, didn't it?
But you didn't need 9/11 for that, right whomod?
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Quote:
PJP said:
It's one private sectors survey and I betcha they are liberal.....wanna bet.
According to their website, the Center for Strategic and International Studies is headed up by John J. Hamre and Sam Nunn.
According to his bio, Hamre was a member of the Clinton Administration.
According to OpenSecrets.Org, Hamre has donated several thousand dollars over the past five years to various democratic committees and candidates.
Nunn was a Democrat Senator from Georgia.
To be fair, another member of the organizations board is that reliable old cold warrior Henry Kissenger and a few other republican names I recognize are present. However, I think an argument can be made that Dr. K. is no match for the rest of the group, which includes Carter advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski and Clinton's Chief Secretary of Appeasement Madeline Albright.
More importantly, however, is the fact that the study, at least according to the article, makes no mention of the fact that some, if not all, of the 9/11 hijackers were here on student visas.
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
That's OUR country's businesses losing that $31 billion on account of our visa policies. You still think they're not hurting us?
Speaking as someone who was there on 9/11 and felt the heat of the flames as the towers exploded and wept as I watched people jump to their deaths because somehow that was a better option than whatever they were facing in the towers I can honestly say that I would take the loss of revenue over the loss of thousands of lives any day of the week.
 Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
harleykwin said:
Speaking as someone who was there on 9/11 and felt the heat of the flames as the towers exploded and wept as I watched people jump to their deaths because somehow that was a better option than whatever they were facing in the towers I can honestly say that I would take the loss of revenue over the loss of thousands of lives any day of the week.
Please don't take offence at this, as there is really none intended....but I am getting really tired of this sort of knee-jerk response of trotting out what was a disgusting event as an excuse for anything that might seem off. It's becoming grossly disrespectful to the poor people that died that day.
It happened. It was extremely tragic...But it still does not excuse a lot of the bullshit that's going on down there.
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
harleykwin said:
Speaking as someone who was there on 9/11 and felt the heat of the flames as the towers exploded and wept as I watched people jump to their deaths because somehow that was a better option than whatever they were facing in the towers I can honestly say that I would take the loss of revenue over the loss of thousands of lives any day of the week.
Please don't take offence at this, as there is really none intended....but I am getting really tired of this sort of knee-jerk response of trotting out what was a disgusting event as an excuse for anything that might seem off. It's becoming grossly disrespectful to the poor people that died that day.
It happened. It was extremely tragic...But it still does not excuse a lot of the bullshit that's going on down there.
No offense taken, klinton. And I do agree that 9/11 has unfortunatley been used to excuse a lot of other crap that has happened thereafter, but believe me that was not my intention.
Last edited by harleykwin; 2005-05-05 6:08 PM.
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
William Webster, former CIA and FBI head, said by scaring away foreign students, "we are losing an opportunity for public diplomacy because the best ambassadors we can possibly have are these students.
This line alone belies any attempt to use the 9/11 tradgedy as a reason to tighten borders to this extreme. If anything the US should be doing it's damndest to encourage positive relationships with other countries, if they really are seeking to promote the security of it's citizenry.
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Mr. Webster is obviously unaware of much of the anti-American hate speech that flows out American Universities. Is this what he means by "the best ambassadors we can possibly have are ...students"? ...al Qaeda mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed ...enrolled at tiny Chowan College in Murfreesburo, N.C.
At Chowan, Mohammed bonded with other Arab Muslim foreign students known as "The Mullahs" for their religious zeal. Alumni say "The Mullahs" kept to themselves and shunned their American counterparts. So much for the vaunted diversity benefits of cultural exchange ("We take great pride in the wonderful relationships developed with our international students," crows Chowan's Office of Enrollment Services.)
Mohammed then transferred to North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, where he earned his degree in mechanical engineering along with 30 other Muslims. Also studying engineering at North Carolina A&T at the time was Mazen Al-Najjar, the brother-in-law of indicted University of South Florida professor and suspected Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist fundraiser Sami Al-Arian.
While in North Carolina, Khalid Mohammed may have had contact with Ali A. Mohamed, another key bin Laden operative.
According to intelligence officials, Mohammed applied his American education to organize the 1993 World Trade Center bombing plot (six Americans dead), the U.S.S. Cole attack (17 American soldiers dead), and the September 11 attacks (3,000 dead). He has also been linked to the 1998 African-embassy bombings (212 dead, including 12 Americans), the plot to kill the pope, the murder last year of American journalist Daniel Pearl, and the Bali nightclub bomb blast last fall that killed nearly 200 tourists last fall, including two more Americans.
[In 2003], federal prosecutors cracked down on a student-visa fraud ring involving 130 foreigners accused of paying substitutes to take English-language proficiency exams to meet their visa requirements.
Nearly 60 Middle Eastern men and women in 13 states were arrested, including Saudi national Saleh Ali Almari, who was found in possession of flight-training manuals, a bioterrorism textbook, videotapes titled "Incredible Air Disasters" and "Incredible Water Disasters," and a fake passport issued by Qatar. He came here on a student visa and enrolled at Marymount University in Arlington, Virginia, in the fall of 2000, but never took classes. He and eight other students pled guilty to fraud last summer. Most of the rest of the fraud suspects, it was reported this week, have been released on bond.
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That proves what exactly G?
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I live in the same apartment complex as a lot of my school's foreign students. They never say hello and are mostly impolite, if I see them at all. They stay together in a group.
I have no idea who they are or what they're here for. So much for diversity.
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Quote:
Kaz said:
I live in the same apartment complex as a lot of my school's foreign students. They never say hello and are mostly impolite, if I see them at all. They stay together in a group.
I have no idea who they are or what they're here for. So much for diversity.
Have you approached them?
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I'm polite and say hello whenever I see them.
They're usually creepy, slamming doors, or playing their music extremely loud.
Granted, that's the exact same thing the Americans below me do, too.
But still. Even on campus I don't see them mingling.
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Quote:
klinton said:
That proves what exactly G?
It proves that tougher restrictions on VISA's are important. Yes, we'll lose some people because they were used to the ease of the old system that allowed (probably best to say pleaded) immigrants to exploit it. I see nothing wrong with strengthening our VISA requirements.
The people who made this report should have compared the US's VISA protocols to those of other nations to get an accurate picture of how bad or well it's working.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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I'm just looking at the bigger picture here, as opposed to the band-aid solutions you guys seem to be chasing.
Is tightening security good for the moment, to screen out any potential threats? I guess so. Is shutting yourselves off and further segregating yourselves from the world going to result in less animosity (the root of terrorist attacks) and more goodwill between the involved nations? Of course not.
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Quote:
klinton said:
I'm just looking at the bigger picture here, as opposed to the band-aid solutions you guys seem to be chasing.
Is tightening security good for the moment, to screen out any potential threats? I guess so. Is shutting yourselves off and further segregating yourselves from the world going to result in less animosity (the root of terrorist attacks) and more goodwill between the involved nations? Of course not.
Shutting ourselves off? I don't think so. People are still capable of coming to this country. We're just being more wary about it. Besides, as I said, I would like a comparison to other nations' Visa protocols before making a half-assed decision on whether or not the US government is being overly cautious.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said: I would like a comparison to other nations' Visa protocols before making a half-assed decision on whether or not the US government is being overly cautious.
Like...say...Canada, your nearest neighbour?
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With respect to visas and the connection to 9/11 - and I use 9/11 only regarding this particular issue - I do believe that had visas been more closely monitored and restrictions implimented, the terrorists on those planes would not have been there to begin with. IIRC, most of them had improper student visas in the first place. Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
klinton said:
That proves what exactly G?
It proves that tougher restrictions on VISA's are important. Yes, we'll lose some people because they were used to the ease of the old system that allowed (probably best to say pleaded) immigrants to exploit it. I see nothing wrong with strengthening our VISA requirements.
The people who made this report should have compared the US's VISA protocols to those of other nations to get an accurate picture of how bad or well it's working.
I agree. With respect to the more individual examples given in the article, I don't see the problem. You show up to a foreign country outside of the time frame that you have been given permission to enter, you should expect to be denied entry. Being detained and questioned? Its a security measure. I was in China with a friend 2 months ago and we got our visas and followed the rules that came with them. Did I like being detained, searched (both luggage and person) and questioned before being allowed into China? No. But if one expects to have another country open their borders then one needs to get a proper visa and follow the dictates that come with it - even if those rules seem stringent.
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Hmmm....I think everyone's misreading me here. I'm actually being a bit of a hippy in my argument. I think that too much energy is being placed in the wrong ventures here. Like I said, increased border security will work to deter terrorist action in the short term.
The long term effects of following this path though are counter productive. It can already be seen in the rising animosity between Canada and the US, and by extension the US and much of the world. Stripping the statue of liberty of her meaning should not be an American goal, regardless of the immediate results...Do you understand my point?
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For my part, I don't have a problem with having visa policies in place designed to keep terrorists out of the country. I just want to see a reasonable balance between keeping potential threats out without closing the gates on people who genuinely aren't threats and treating foreigners who are here for legitimate purposes like criminals.
To not have any visa policies at all leaves us vulnerable, and going to the other extreme could be seen as a demonstration of paranoia - and terrorists who want to intimidate as well as destroy could see it as a victory of sorts (and according to the article, there are other consequences as well). So a reasonable balance between the two is needed.
And also, naive as it may sound, I'm one of those people that wants to see the guilty punished without the innocents getting punished as well.
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klinton, I think I get what you're trying to say - I just disagree with how you see this particular situation. I believe that any animosity between the nations is much, much bigger than just the single issue regarding visas (which I don't think strips Lady Liberty of her meaning BTW), but those issues go beyond the scope of this thread IMHO.
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
harleykwin said:
which I don't think strips Lady Liberty of her meaning BTW)
Can I ask you what she does stand for then? What she has meant, standing in that harbour to many generations of imagrants?
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Quote:
Darknight613 said:
For my part, I don't have a problem with having visa policies in place designed to keep terrorists out of the country. I just want to see a reasonable balance between keeping potential threats out without closing the gates on people who genuinely aren't threats and treating foreigners who are here for legitimate purposes like criminals.
To not have any visa policies at all leaves us vulnerable, and going to the other extreme could be seen as a demonstration of paranoia - and terrorists who want to intimidate as well as destroy could see it as a victory of sorts (and according to the article, there are other consequences as well). So a reasonable balance between the two is needed.
And also, naive as it may sound, I'm one of those people that wants to see the guilty punished without the innocents getting punished as well.
Good point, but nowhere in this article was it demonstrated that the decisions regarding the delay or denial of the visas were unreasonable. Without knowing the reasons there is no way to determine whether the decisions were reasonable or not.
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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I wasn't really referring to anything specifically from the article. It was just a generic comment that also served to clarify my position on our visa policies.
Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-05 9:51 PM.
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"If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:
klinton said:
Quote:
harleykwin said:
which I don't think strips Lady Liberty of her meaning BTW)
Can I ask you what she does stand for then? What she has meant, standing in that harbour to many generations of imagrants?
I think what she represents to many is subject to each individual's personal interpretation, but as a whole/blanket statement I believe its the idea of freedom and that you can come here and live the "American Dream" - whatever that "dream" is to you - getting political asylum; starting a new life; living in "the land of opportunity," etc. And even with the visa restrictions in place, people still can come this nation and make a good life for themselves and their families. My mom and paternal grandparents did it as many other immigrants still do it today. But I think your point (and correct me if I'm mistaken) is much broader than the issue of just the visas.
Dear, sweet Harley Kwink...I'm madly in love with you. Marry me! We can go to Canadia. Or Boston or something. It'll be grand...You know the cookies are a given. They are ALWAYS a given. You could dump me tomorrow and you'd still get the cookies. Boston..shit, wherever dyke weddings were legalized. And where better to rub their little piggie noses in how bad they suck than right on their doorstep? What are they gonna do? Be jealous of you? Stare furiously at your tah-tahs? Not willingly give you cookies, but instead begrudgingly give you their cookies? Woman, time to wake up to the powers you wield - Uschi
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Quote:
harleykwin said:
But I think your point (and correct me if I'm mistaken) is much broader than the issue of just the visas.
Yup. This is just symptomatic of what I'm getting at.
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With all due respect, klinton, you act as if Canada has a particularly tolerant immigration policy. According to Reuters: "You just can't come into Canada and say 'I'm going to stay here'. In other words, there has to be an application. There has to be a reason why the person is coming to Canada," said immigration ministry spokeswoman Maria Iadinardi.
[Becoming] permanent citizens of Canada...often takes a year. Becoming a full citizen takes a further three years...a work permit...takes from four to six months to come through.
Refugee cases are handled by special boards, which can take months to decide whether to admit applicants.
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On an international scale? We're exemplary. Even those who aren't granted thier citizenship are allowed to reside here during the procedings. Those that are denied often find support in the community and achieve thier citizenship in the end.
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heck, try getting into Denmark, then you'll suddenly see how lenient the American visa policies are
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Quote:
klinton said:
On an international scale? We're exemplary. Even those who aren't granted thier citizenship are allowed to reside here during the procedings. Those that are denied often find support in the community and achieve thier citizenship in the end.
That's not particulary different than here. Which is my point. Canada is not particularly easier than the U.S.
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We have laws banning our own citizens under the age of 24 to take a husband or wife and then bring the spouse to Denmark
(which, for the record, is stupid!)
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Quote:
the G-man said:
That's not particulary different than here. Which is my point. Canada is not particularly easier than the U.S.
But we're not moving towards making it more difficult...There was an amendment made to the immigration process (which is where your information is coming from) that was a direct result of post 9/11 hysteria. That amendment is being dismantled, as it flies in the face of Canadian ideals. Some of the more recent amendments have allowed visiting students to hold jobs during thier tenure and looking at ways to expedite the process of attaining citizenship. The tiered system of citizenship slipped into action on the coat tails of a larger bill (the issue escapes me at the moment) and has been thoroughly criticized by government and citizenry alike.
Get back to me on the state of affairs and any similarities between the US and Canada in acouple years.
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Quote:
Chant said:
We have laws banning our own citizens under the age of 24 to take a husband or wife and then bring the spouse to Denmark
(which, for the record, is stupid!)
Denmark is stupid?
Anyway, my Visa has the policy of charging outragious fees and intrest. I don't think it's very good.
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