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I can't say I didn't enjoy the movie... however it feels more like fan masturbation than actual filmmaking. Without the original trilogy this movie is nothing. Apart from a couple of excellent scenes, the whole movie is based on causing emotivity through nostalgia.
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Quote:
Flameswordsman said:
The complaints
1] I simply didnt buy Anakins turn to the Dark side. He was with the council, even telling Windu about Palpatines Sith Lord status, then suddennly he's pledging allegance to a loser and agreeing to change his name and slaughter kids.
I've heard many fans say that he turned to the Dark side in order to save Padme, and though its true in part, I think that there's more to it than that. WRT him telling Windu - I think it showed that he still was siding with the Jedis, but remember that his faith in them had already been shaken when Obi-Wan had asked him to spy on the Chancellor. He believed that the request to spy went against what the Jedis stood for - trying to go around the very rules of democracy that they were supposed to be upholding. I really got the sense that to some degree that at the moment he finally capitulated, he really thought he was doing the right thing and that not only would he be bringing peace to the universe, - and bringing down Jedis who, in his mind, were out to take over and usurp the chancellor's power - but he would learn how to save Padme in the process. Not to mention that he couldn't understand why he was on the Council, but not given the title of "master" which only added fuel to the fire.
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I dont get how Windu about to kill Palpatine would change anything in his mind, especially when he knew Dooku served Palpatine and even excecuted Dooku himself after knowing it was wrong
When he executed Dooku he didn't know that the Chancellor was the Sith Lord they were looking for - he even had that moment of conflict about whether he should kill Dooku, but then Palpatine was like, "He's too dangerous to live! Kill him!" and he did. (Anyone else see Dooku's shocked expression at Palpatine's order? Nice moment)
Windu about to kill Palpatine changed his mind because: 1. Palpatine had not yet taught him the secrets that would save Padme's life and 2. The last vestige of Anakin being a Jedi was when he was pleading with Mace not to kill Palpatine and to let him go to trial as he was supposed to. Mace taking the law into his own hands and being judge, jury and executioner went against everything the Jedis were supposed to represent - couple this with his doubts about the Jedis that had been festering for awhile and then seeing a supposedly weakened and defeated Chancellor lying on the floor and its not like he suddenly went over to the Dark Side - all these factors had been building up to that moment of betrayal.
Quote:
3] Anakin went to the dark side to help save Padme. How come he never got the lessons to save her,
Like I said above, saving Padme was only part of the reason he turned. Also, I got the sense that once he swore allegiance to Palpatine, Order 66 was given immediately afterwards. Getting Anakin to cross over was the last piece of the puzzle and once the Chancellor had that, his plan went into effect immediately. There was no break within which Anakin had time to learn the secrets.
Personally, I really enjoyed this one. Yeah, the acting on Hayden and (suprisingly) Natalie, was wooden, but I loved Ewan. (You were my brother! I loved you!) The scene in the apartment where they talk about how they love each other made me gag. Lucas should be banned from ever writing love scene dialogue ever again. The Order 66 moment with all the Jedis being betrayed really hit me. Awesome. That and the final battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin was fantastic - Obi-Wan chopping off Anikin's legs was something I totally did NOT see coming. Yoda decapitating the clones that were coming after him once Order 66 was called in. People in my theatre cheered. The mask coming down so we saw what Anakin saw - which I think TK already mentioned - was tres cool. Same with the parallel moments of the birth of Vader and the death of Padme. One thing that kinda touched me was Padme's funeral scene where the camera focused in on her holding the amulet that Anakin had give her as a kid - that struck me as so sad - even in death she held on to a trinket of innocence.
IMHO, this is the third best of all six movies (I hated ROTJ - frickin' ewocks...)
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Quote:
harleykwin said:
Quote:
Flameswordsman said:
The complaints
1] I simply didnt buy Anakins turn to the Dark side. He was with the council, even telling Windu about Palpatines Sith Lord status, then suddennly he's pledging allegance to a loser and agreeing to change his name and slaughter kids.
I've heard many fans say that he turned to the Dark side in order to save Padme, and though its true in part, I think that there's more to it than that. WRT him telling Windu - I think it showed that he still was siding with the Jedis, but remember that his faith in them had already been shaken when Obi-Wan had asked him to spy on the Chancellor. He believed that the request to spy went against what the Jedis stood for - trying to go around the very rules of democracy that they were supposed to be upholding. I really got the sense that to some degree that at the moment he finally capitulated, he really thought he was doing the right thing and that not only would he be bringing peace to the universe, - and bringing down Jedis who, in his mind, were out to take over and usurp the chancellor's power - but he would learn how to save Padme in the process. Not to mention that he couldn't understand why he was on the Council, but not given the title of "master" which only added fuel to the fire.
Yes. I got the feeling he thought he was on the side of good aswell, even though he must have realised that slaughering kids wasnt anything near right. I see it like he snapped, willing to do anything to bring true peace to the galaxy, even killing young padawans and the seperatist leaders [who could have quite easily been imprisioned instead of butchered]
Quote:
I dont get how Windu about to kill Palpatine would change anything in his mind, especially when he knew Dooku served Palpatine and even excecuted Dooku himself after knowing it was wrong
Quote:
When he executed Dooku he didn't know that the Chancellor was the Sith Lord they were looking for - he even had that moment of conflict about whether he should kill Dooku, but then Palpatine was like, "He's too dangerous to live! Kill him!" and he did. (Anyone else see Dooku's shocked expression at Palpatine's order? Nice moment)
Wouldnt he have realised that if Palpatine was the big Sith that Dooku must have been working for him? Ofcourse i dont think he ever even considered this
Quote:
Windu about to kill Palpatine changed his mind because: 1. Palpatine had not yet taught him the secrets that would save Padme's life and 2. The last vestige of Anakin being a Jedi was when he was pleading with Mace not to kill Palpatine and to let him go to trial as he was supposed to. Mace taking the law into his own hands and being judge, jury and executioner went against everything the Jedis were supposed to represent - couple this with his doubts about the Jedis that had been festering for awhile and then seeing a supposedly weakened and defeated Chancellor lying on the floor and its not like he suddenly went over to the Dark Side - all these factors had been building up to that moment of betrayal.
Yeah, he basically slashed ol' Mace's arm off because he knew Padme's life would end in child birth without Palpatine. Deep down he must have known Palpatine couldnt have been imprisoned, and death was the only answer, just like in Dooku's case. Doubt he thought much about that though, i cant blame him either with the life of his wife hanging in the balance
I get everything you've said, it just still didnt feel right to me. Anakin wasnt displaying the emotional turmoil enough for me to buy his fall to the dark side, in fact, he was acting way too good before his fall. If he would have seriously questioned the Jedi's intentions for the Republic, and weighed up the decision to rat out Palpatine to them, it would have been more convincing, but instead its like he was bottling it up and just snapped at Windu to save Padme. Plausible, just not the best way it could have been handled.
Surely he would have realised that the words of a Sith Lord couldnt be trusted over the Jedi, an order he had worked with and seeked justice with for many years of his life aswell. His trust may have been shaken when they asked him to go against the order and pissed him off with the "master" thing, but still......
As previously mentioned, the power levels were a bit off-centre. It didnt particularly bother me that Anakin must have been well above even Mace and Yoda's level at the begginning of the movie, but still couldnt handle Obi-Wan, but a little actual thought would have resolved them
Wanted to enjoy the Yoda/Sideous fight, but just didnt. Palpatines joke of a technique was just off-putting. Gotta question Yoda's fighting style after getting over the initial thrill from seeing him get busy. All he seems to do is jump around needlessly and accomplish nothing while the opponent [Palpatine/Dooku] just stands there and blocks easily. Still, it was Yoda fighting, so its forgivable. Someone like Mace fighting in the end all-out battle would have been more enjoyable though, equal terms/sizes and all that, plus a more interesting saber battle
Shame the clone war was left out, the cartoon just didnt do it justice. Would have been much better if they included the last few episodes of the cartoon in the begginning of the movie aswell, Grievous' assault on the Jedi-council city [name?] with all his droids and the kidnapping of Palpatine would have been much better on the big screen. Maybe that would have actually given Greivous some respect aswell, because he was kicking Jedi ass in the cartoon but then gets shown up by just Obi-Wan [for anyone that doesnt know, Mace Windu caused his bad cough, after Grievous kidnapped the Chancellor and slaughtered some clones 'n' Jedi, Mace crushed his chest with the force in a fit of rage as he was escaping on a ship]
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I liked it..much better than ep 1 and better than ep 2..I place it about the same as return of the jedi, but not quite as good because of slave girl leia...
anyway, I hated the goofy sound effect voices coming from every other character, but I really thought the acting was better, especially ewan, and even hayden was watchable...the script was better as well..
Does anyone know the scene Spielberg directed???? Lucas said there was a sequence....
I hated cheesy Vader yelling NOOOOOO!..James E Jones..didn't try hard enough there...
And, yes, after watching clone wars I thought Grievous was abit of a disappointment...I thought Commander Cody would also side with Obi wan rather than trying to kill him, that was a bit shocking...
Mace was not beating Palpatine, not really, Sidious was baiting him to get anakin to go dark..he obviously had a lot of juice left there at the end, when he said unlimited power or whatever...
sidious was not implying he was vader's father, I didn't get that...
The clone troopers were badasses in this series, I wonder why they were such pussies and bad shots in the original trilogy..?????
Overall it redeemed lucas for episode 1 in my mind...
It tied everything together as well as it could...
Last edited by Pig Iron; 2005-05-30 11:16 PM.
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Thinking about the inconsistencies of the saber duels, and re-viewing the film... I think it's possible that Palpatine might have been influencing the fight between Obi-Wan, Dooku and Anakin. This way he could move Obi-Wan out of the fight and Anakin could kill Dooku and then they could leave Obi-Wan to die.
It's just a theory.
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Anakin on paper may be the most powerful Jedi ever. But he still didn't have the necessary skill and experience to be the best. Obi-Wan took his powers to the limit by honing them as best as he could. That's why he was able to defeat him.
I'm sure Yoda and Mace could've done the same but faster. Hell, even Luke beat him...
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Only after being beaten by Vader and making a run back to Dagobah, though...
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HATED THE KIDS SCENE!!!!! Almost made me vomit....I know they had to show darth evil but hey....to show him with his light saber heading towards the younglings...........SO WRONG! AND EVIL!!!!! And sickening! He shoulda been shot for that.
Even though I wasn't into the whole glorification of evil theme and thought the violence towards the end was way to graphic *yuck at ani getting scorched and being tortured as he's operated on*, I liked the light saber scenes for the most part. The beginning with Dookoo and Ani was pretty good, my favorite though wasn't the Obi Wan and Ani fight but the Obi Wan and the General. That rocked......when the gen brought out like four light sabers....totally awesome.
All in all, wish I hadn't seen it, it was hard going to bed afterwards with the graphic scenes scarred in my memory for life ;p
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Quote:
Flame said:
1] I simply didnt buy Anakins turn to the Dark side. He was with the council, even telling Windu about Palpatines Sith Lord status, then suddennly he's pledging allegance to a loser and agreeing to change his name and slaughter kids. I dont get how Windu about to kill Palpatine would change anything in his mind, especially when he knew Dooku served Palpatine and even excecuted Dooku himself after knowing it was wrong.
Totally agree....that scene went way to quick for me. Lucas tried to drive Ani over the edge with the whole Padme thing echoing in the background but it still didn't do it for me...one stage hes sweet and innocent, the next confused, and then WOW he's evil!?
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Quote:
Pig Iron said:
Does anyone know the scene Spielberg directed???? Lucas said there was a sequence....
Look for the shooting star.
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No, really. It probably will.
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I heard Speilberg was in it, anyone know when that was? I kept an eye out for him but didn't see him.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Heh, I saw Lucas, but I didn't look for Speilberg.
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WOOPS, I meant Lucas. Sorry, tired and kind of distracted. Found an old friend I hadn't seen in years (via google, finally) and am waiting to see if she'll call or email me back tonight.
Last edited by Batwoman; 2005-05-24 3:50 AM.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Quote:
Batwoman said:
WOOPS, I meant Lucas. Sorry, tired and kind of distracted. Found an old friend I hadn't seen in years (via google, finally) and am waiting to see if she'll call or email me back tonight.
Did you see a big fat flanel alien?
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Wasn't he in blue makeup or something like that?
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Big fat blue flannel make up?
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no, when was that? btw I was also distracted pretty much about 5 mintues into it, through the rest due to having to make a bathroom run. I think my willpower out did Hal's that night, I managed to make it through the movie, then run to the bathroom. That is, after talking to a couple of the guys I went with, about the movies, books, story, etc.
It's a rented tux ok? I'm not going comando in another man's fatigues.
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Why when you could have missed a few minutes and been fine for the rest?
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Just saw it. really liked it. I feel sullen. it's the last movie and that is a bummer. it breaks your heart to see how Anakin was so twisted he had forsaken everything that mattered to him. my thoughts at the end of the movie went straight to ROTJ. I thought of how he redeemed himself by saving Luke and killing Palpatine and it made me feel all warm inside. all in all a good movie. I suggest to everyone to read the novel. the movie doesn't do certain scenes justice. I'll see it again next week probably. oh and I saw the Batman trailer again. I had goosebumps the whole time. Can not wait! and top of everything else the red sox are losing to the yanks with 2 outs in the 9th........6-3. 
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......oh and Yoda is a fucking bad ass.
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I'm still sullen though. 
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I didn't feel sad that is was the last movie. I think it tied up everything nicely.
November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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Quote:
rex said:
I didn't feel sad that is was the last movie. I think it tied up everything nicely.
yes it did. I just would like to see more movies down the road. there are many other stories to be told.
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Quote:
Just saw it. really liked it. I feel sullen. it's the last movie and that is a bummer. it breaks your heart to see how Anakin was so twisted he had forsaken everything that mattered to him. my thoughts at the end of the movie went straight to ROTJ. I thought of how he redeemed himself by saving Luke and killing Palpatine and it made me feel all warm inside. all in all a good movie. I suggest to everyone to read the novel. the movie doesn't do certain scenes justice. I'll see it again next week probably.
I totally agree..........one of the reasons why I wish I hadn't seen it!
Btw, I hear Lucas is talking about a sequel...I think rex was telling me that.
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He's doing a TV series, not a sequel. Pay attention reax.
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Quote:
Pay attention reax.
Didnt you mean, "pay attention elisa ;p"?
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November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
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The TV series is about SW characters that got barely any screen time. I dont know why, but it could be interesting. I think most characters who fall under this banner are all dead by the end of Ep. III, but it could be interesting, especially exploring that under-water Jedi on the council, Kit Fisto [shame he got gutted by Palpatine really....]
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Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
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Finally saw it today, in digital. I had tears in my eyes when Bail Organa presented Leia to his wife. I wish the other prequils would have properly been able to lead up to this film. I guess four out of six ain't bad, though.
<sub>Will Eisner's last work - The Plot: The Secret Story of the Protocols of the Elders of ZionRDCW Profile"Well, as it happens, I wrote the damned SOP," Illescue half snarled, "and as of now, you can bar those jackals from any part of this facility until Hell's a hockey rink! Is that perfectly clear?!" - Dr. Franz Illescue - Honor Harrington: At All Costs"I don't know what I'm do, or how I do, I just do." - Alexander Ovechkin</sub>
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Quote:
PJP said:
Just saw it. really liked it. I feel sullen. it's the last movie and that is a bummer.
agreed.
Half way thru the film I realised that this was the last film and the fight I had been waiting to see for almost 30 years was almost upon me.
I remember loving episode 4, every time I saw it, I got something new out of it. I think it was the second viewing when I noticed the dialog between Vader and Obi-Wan and the mention of a past battle - I remember it being all we would talk about at school.
I liked this film but like the others from the new trilogy, it should have been so much better and wasted a lot of opportunities.
Agreed with most of the niggly points brought up - R2 squeal used to be cool but got very boring in this film, What was the point of Christopher Lee in this one? I hated how they tagged on the 'Jedis coming back from the dead without actually showing Liam Neeson - very badly done. Why have Wookees, especially Chewy when you're not using them to their full extent. I know Anakin was arrogant but what was he thinking when he made the jump to dryland in the final battle - did he think Obi-Wan would let him on? What was the reasoning for Yoda to go into exile, he made the decision so matter of factly. I would have liked to have seen a fight between Mace Windu and Anakin, the way MAce died was quite embarrassing. Finally, I would have liked to have seen Yoda take apart palapatine but refrain killing him as there had been much death that day!
I liked a lot of stuff, though whilst typing this, unfortunately I found a lot more I didn't like......no, I liked but felt could have been done much much better!
I thought Ewan Mcgregor was good this time around, he was very much like the Alec Guinness Kenobi.
I thought it was well done, how Anakin butched the younglings - he had to do it!
Love the effects, the space battle and the lava planet.
Thanks to whoever explained why the big android was coughing and spluttering!
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
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Quote:
Chewy Walrus said:
Petty Annoyances:
- Okay... we get it! Yoda talks weird! Do we really need every line to be absurdly incomprehensible?
- R2-D2 (a.) should not have thrusters and (b.) shouldn't go "WEEOWW!" every other line for the first ten minutes of the film.
- The fact that the vulture droids and half the alien races all sounded like Jawas. Originality much, Lucas?
- Chewbacca. There was no reason for him to be in this film at all, other than to appease the ravening fanboys.
- What the fuck was that iguana thing Obi-Wan was riding? It also made annoying noises.
- If Padme dies during childbirth, then how does Leia 'remember' her mother in Return of the Jedi? From that one measly little encounter? I have my doubts...
The Good Stuff:
- One line and seven seconds of screen time for Jar-Jar! My prayers were answered!
- The battles - Anakin v. Obi-Wan and Yoda v. Palpatine. Just too sweet!
- Palpatine's transformation. Wicked awesome and the most frightening part of the whole film!
- General Grievous. 'Nuff said.
- Dooku's demise. Beheading in a Star Wars film? Phenomenal!
All in all, I'd say this is the best of the "new trilogy" mainly because of the violence. That really made the movie ten times better for me.
Chewy, I immediately thought of Leia saying that she remembered her mother as being sad in JEDI...when in Episode 3, she only saw her mother, Padme, for a minute or so, and Leia was a newborn infant. But there is a method of bringing an individual back psychologically to the MOMENT of birth..Leia might have had that done to her..it is called REBIRTHING.... I went through this experience many years ago, myself .
Their were other inconsistancies, too.....R 2 could hover in Episodes 1 - 3, but did not display this ability in episodes 4 - 6.
Yoda kicked ass!!!! I'll never see him the same way again, as I did in Empire and Jedi, as just a fragile old man...
Mace Windu. He kicked ass too! I was sad to see him die, and in such a horrible fashion. The movie needed a strong black presence that movies 4, 5, and 6 lacked. Lando was ok, but Mace Windu was a bad ass Jedi!!!!
Anakin - Obi Wan duel. It was Awesome!!!! Sad that Anakin had to be so horribly misfigured, but we all knew it was coming...we just didn't know the exact details until now.
The birth of Darth Vader..very cool! It was a fusion of the birth of Frankenstein and the origin of Dr. Doom.
The death of Padme....very sad....
The murder of the Jedi.....depressing moment.
On a lighter moment, I half expected to see a seven or eight year old Han Solo being led thru a shopping mall by his mom, and stealing an apple, and being yelled at for it.
" Han! Can't you stay out of trouble for even a minute? "
His mom would ask.
I posted LATE in this thread because I only just now saw it here.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,236
The Swizzler.... 6000+ posts
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The Swizzler.... 6000+ posts
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,236 |
I liked your view on Hans Solo...that would have been an awesome touch to the film 
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633
I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633 |
Quote:
PrincessElisa said:
I liked your view on Hans Solo...that would have been an awesome touch to the film
Thanks Princess! And in THAT hypothetical scene, Han would pull out a SECOND apple that his mom didn't catch him swiping, and smile as he bites into it...
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633
I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633 |
One year later, with Episode 3 all over HBO, I am bored to tears with it. It has a very low rewatchability factor, unlike the first trilogy.....No cool lines to quote, etc.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1
We already are 15000+ posts
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We already are 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1 |
are you threatening me Master Jedi?
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633
I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
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I walk in eternity 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 19,633 |
"The force is strong with this one....leave him to me."
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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