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#514477 2005-05-24 2:09 AM
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050524/ap_on_go_co/filibuster_fight

Quote:

Senators Avert Showdown Over Filibusters



By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent 23 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - In a dramatic reach across party lines, Senate centrists sealed a compromise Monday night that cleared the way for confirmation of many of President Bush's stalled judicial nominees, left others in limbo and preserved venerable filibuster rules.

"We have reached an agreement to try to avert a crisis in the United States Senate and pull the institution back from a precipice," said Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., adding the deal was based on "trust, respect and mutual desire to .... protect the rights of the minority.

"We have lifted ourselves above politics," agreed Sen. Robert C. Byrd (news, bio, voting record), D-W. Va., "And we have signed this document....in the interest of freedom of speech, freedom of debate and freedom to dissent in the United States Senate.

Under the terms, Democrats agreed to allow final confirmation votes for Priscilla Owen, Janice Rogers Brown and William Pryor, appeals court nominees they have long blocked. There is "no commitment to vote for or against" the filibuster against two other conservatives named to the appeals court, Henry Saad and William Myers.

The agreement said future judicial nominees should "only be filibustered under extraordinary circumstances," with each senator — presumably the Democrats — holding the discretion to decide when those conditions had been met.

"In light of the spirit and continuing commitments made in this agreement," Republicans joined Democrats in pledging to oppose any attempt to make changes in the application of filibuster rules — a commitment that Sen. Mike DeWine (news, bio, voting record), R-Ohio said at the news conference was conditional on Democrats upholding their end of the deal.

While the agreement was signed by only 14 senators, they held the balance of power in a sharply divided Senate — able to thwart continued Democratic filibusters, on the one hand, and block GOP attempts to alter filibuster practices on the other.

Republicans, moving quickly, said they would seek to confirm Owen as early as Tuesday, with other cleared nominees to follow quickly.

Even so, Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., noted he had not been a party to the deal, which fell short of his stated goal of winning yes-or-no votes on each of Bush's nominees. "It has some good news and it has some disappointing news and it will require careful monitoring," he said.

Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada seemed more receptive — although he hastened to say he remains opposed to some of the nominees who will now likely take seats on federal appeals courts.

"Checks and balances have been protected. The integrity of the Supreme Court has been protected from the undue influence of the vocal, radical right wing," Reid said.

The White House said the agreement was a positive development.

"Many of these nominees have waited for quite some time to have an up-or-down vote and now they are going to get one. That's progress," presidential press secretary Scott McClellan said. "We will continue working to push for up or down votes for all the nominees."

At the same time, even Republicans said the agreement would force a change on the White House.

"Judges are going to get a vote that wouldn't have gotten a vote otherwise. We're going to start talking about who would be a good judge and who wouldn't. And the White House is going to get more involved and they are going to listen to us more," he said.

The deal was sealed around the table in McCain's office, across the street from the Capitol where senators had expected an all-night session of speech-making, prelude to Tuesday's anticipated showdown.

Nominally, the issue at hand on the Senate floor was Bush's selection of Owen, a member of the Texas Supreme Court, to a seat on the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans.

In fact, as the rhetoric suggested, the stakes were far broader, with Republicans maneuvering to strip Democrats of their right to filibuster and thus block current and future nominees to the appeals court and Supreme Court.

There currently is no vacancy on the high court, although one or more is widely expected in Bush's term. Chief Justice William Rehnquist's coincidental presence in the Capitol during the day was a reminder of that. At age 80 and battling thyroid cancer, he entered the building in a wheelchair on his way to the doctor's office.

The agreement came as Frist, R-Tenn. and Reid, D-Nev. steered the Senate toward a showdown on Bush's nominees and historic filibuster rules, under which a minority can prevent action unless the majority gains 60 votes.

For decades, Senate rules have permitted opponents to block votes on judicial nominees by mounting a filibuster, a parliamentary device that can be stopped only by a 60-vote majority.

But Republicans, frustrated by Democratic filibusters that thwarted 10 of Bush's first-term appeals court nominees and prepared to block seven of them again, threatened to supersede that rule by simple majority vote.

In classic Senate style, the agreement was followed by a rush of self-congratulatory speeches — and disagreement over what it meant.

Democrats, pointing to a slight change in wording from an earlier draft, said the deal would preclude Republicans from attempting to deny them the right to filibuster. Republicans said that was not ironclad, but valid only as long as Democrats did not go back on their word to filibuster only in extraordinary circumstances.

One official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the issue had been discussed at the meeting in McCain's office, and was "clearly understood" by those in attendance.

Apart from the judicial nominees named in the agreement, Reid said Democrats would clear the way for votes on David McKeague, Richard Griffin and Susan Neilson, all named to the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Democratic officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested that two other appeals court nominees whose named were omitted from the written agreement — White House staff secretary Brett Kavanaugh and Pentagon lawyer William Haynes — might be jettisoned. Republicans said they knew of no such understanding.




Thank G-d that's over with.

It's not a perfect solution, I know, but it may prove to have worked out for the best in the long run.


"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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I'm happy.



Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else. --Will Rogers "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." - George W. Bush I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would .. try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile. - Condoleeza Rice Barbara Bush: It's Good Enough for the Poor To comfort the powerless and make the powerful uncomfortable.
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I'll reserve decision until what I see what democratis leaders mean by "extraordinary circumstances."

Based on their earlier, shall we say, elastic, definitions of "extremist" and "outside the judicial mainstream," which seemed to translate to "anyone we don't like," I could envision that "extraordinary circumstances" will translate into "whenever we damn well feel like filibustering."

But I'm willing to be proven wrong.

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Quote:

the G-man said:
Based on their earlier, shall we say, elastic, definitions of "extremist" and "outside the judicial mainstream," which seemed to translate to "anyone we don't like," I could envision that "extraordinary circumstances" will translate into "whenever we damn well feel like filibustering."




If that happens, then Republicans can claim "they didn't honor their part of the agreement so we won't honor ours," and we're back where we started. The Democrats probably realize this, so they may not use the filibuster option unless something that can be universally accepted as an extraordinary circumstance.

(And there's always a chance that some Republicans may not feel that any filibuster is being used in a legitimately extraordinary circumstance, even if it is.)

So as you said, let's wait and see how this plays out before passing final judgment.

Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-24 7:33 PM.

"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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It's already looking bad. From the Associated Press:


    Democrats forced a delay Thursday in a confirmation vote for John R. Bolton, yet another setback for President Bush's tough-talking choice as U.N. ambassador and a renewal of intense partisanship in the Senate after a brief respite.

    The vote to advance Bolton's nomination to an immediate confirmation vote was 56-42 - four short of the 60 votes that Bolton's Republican backers needed.

    ...it was a setback for Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., who was hoping to end nearly three months of delays and investigation and finally deliver Bolton's nomination for the president.

    Frist said the Bolton matter soured the air of cooperation the two parties' centrists forged just days ago after months of wrangling over judges.

    "John Bolton, the very first issue we turned to, we got what looks to me like a filibuster," Frist said. "It certainly sounds like a filibuster ... it quacks like a filibuster."

    White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the administration was pleased that Republicans would revisit the vote after the recess and criticized Democrats for the newest delay.

    "Just 72 hours after all the goodwill and bipartisanship, it is a shame to see the Democratic Senate leadership resort back to such a partisan approach," McClellan said. "This is a nominee that enjoys majority support."

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From what I've heard from other sources and read in other articles, Democrats will only delay the nomination if they aren't given certain records they requested to review regarding some of their complaints against Bolton.

It even says something to that effect in the article you posted (which you just happened to leave out)

Quote:

Democrats contended the White House had stiff-armed the Senate over classified information on Bolton's tenure in his current job as the State Department's arms control chief, and demanded more information before the Senate can give Bolton an up-or-down vote.




Quote:

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., said Democrats do not want to postpone an up-or-down vote indefinitely.

"We are willing to vote 10 minutes after we get back in session, if in fact they provide the information," Biden said.




The solution here is simple: give the Democrats the documents they requested, which they should have done in the first place. If there really isn't anything in those documents that's damaging to Bolton, there's no harm in turning them over.

Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-27 2:56 AM.

"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Quote:

Darknight613 said:
The solution here is simple: give the Democrats the documents they requested, which they should have done in the first place. If there really isn't anything in those documents that's damaging to Bolton, there's no harm in turning them over.




Stop making sense!


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I can't help it! It just comes naturally!


"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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Here's a couple of articles that seems to confirm that the Democrats are delaying the vote on Bolton on account of not receiving information they requested (COMPLETE articles)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050526/pl_...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Quote:

US Senate delays vote on Bolton UN confirmation

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Opposition Democrats in US Senate forced a delay in the confirmation vote of John Bolton to become US ambassador to the United Nations, the latest setback for President's George W. Bush's beleaguered nominee to the post.

By a vote of 42 to 56, opposition Democrats managed to garner enough support for a procedural maneuver to prolong debate on Bolton's nomination. Democrats needed the votes of just 41 senators to delay a confirmation vote from going forward.

After the vote, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist bitterly remarked that the move bore an uncanny similarity to the "filibuster" maneuver that Democrats employed to block Bush's judicial nominations for years, and which very nearly led to a massive partisan showdown earlier this week.

"It looks like we have yet again another filibuster," Frist said.

Senate Democrats said the additional time would allow them to pressure the Bush administration to produce additional classified information on Bolton.

The sought-after information dealt with congressional testimony written by Bolton about Syria's alleged attempts to procure weapons of mass destruction, and efforts by Bolton to obtain the names of several intelligence analysts whose identities were revealed in several top-secret reports.

Senate Minority Harry Reid assured Republicans that Democrats were not trying to block a confirmation vote, but needed the information to fully vet the controversial nominee.

"We don't want this to be a diversion from the work we have to do here," Reid said, adding that Democrats had no choice but to block the nominee until the White House provides the documents.


State Department spokesman Richard Boucher earlier Thursday said the department, including his boss Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice, has bent over backwards to provide all the data needed for senators to vet Bolton.

"We've spent hundreds of man hours. We've produced extensive amounts of documents. Over 25 hours of hearings and business meetings were devoted by the committee to reviewing the nomination," Boucher told reporters.

"Once again, we reiterate the secretary and the president believe he's the right man for the job. We hope to see him at the United Nations very soon," he said.

In addition the impasse with the White House over the intelligence documents, Democrats have a litany of complaints against the nominee himself. They accuse Bolton of bullying past staff members and manipulating intelligence to suit his political agenda, and say he is temperamentally ill-suited for the highest levels of diplomacy.

"The United Nations is the world's preeminent diplomatic body," said Senator Ted Kennedy said on the Senate floor, summing up Democrats' objections to Bolton.

"Now more than ever, America needs to put our best face forward to the international community. We can and should do better than John Bolton," Kennedy said before the vote.

Adding to their objections, Democrats said Thursday that Bolton would be a damaged UN ambassador, after the bruising series of hearings and investigations into his past.

"What credibility will he have?" said Democratic Senator Paul Sarbanes. "We need a credible spokesman at the United Nations."

Bolton, who is currently the US undersecretary of state for arms control and international security, has fervent Republican supporters who said he is precisely the US envoy the world body needs after scandals in the UN-administered oil-for-food program in
Iraq, sexual misconduct by UN peacekeepers, and other problems.

In reprising one of the most often-invoked reasons for approving Bolton, Republican Senator John McCain said he should be confirmed primarily because he is President George W. Bush's pick.

"Elections have consequences. One consequence of President Bush's reelection is he has a right to appoint officials of his choice.

"It's not my choice, or any other senator's, but the president's choice," McCain said.

Bolton's confirmation vote now will be postponed until after the Senate returns from a weeklong holiday in June.




http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/05/26/national/w075811D74.DTL

Quote:

Senator Calls for Delay in Vote on Bolton

(05-26) 07:58 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --

The White House is stiff-arming Democrats over classified information about President Bush's pick to be United Nations ambassador, and the Senate should put off a vote on the embattled nominee until next month, a Democratic opponent argued Thursday.

"We should delay this until we see that information; it's a matter of right and wrong," Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., maintained at the start of a second day of Senate debate over John R. Bolton's fitness and qualifications. "It is right for us to get that information, it is wrong for the administration to withhold it."

Democrats set up a procedural vote over the documents Thursday, ahead of a planned up-or-down vote on the man that Bush says would reform the United Nations.

The material, which Democrats have sought for weeks, involves Bolton's use of government intelligence on Syria and instances in which he asked for names of fellow U.S. officials whose communications were secretly picked up by a spy agency.


Boxer read out a litany of allegations about Bolton that she said show he is ill-suited to be the nation's top representative at the world body. She also accused Bolton of misleading the Senate committee that wrangled over Bolton's nomination for weeks without offering him its endorsement.

"John Bolton did not tell the truth to the Foreign Relations Committee," on several points, Boxer alleged. "If nothing else I've said matters ... you ought to care about telling the truth to a committee of the United States Senate," Boxer told other senators. "We have it chapter and verse. We have it cold here."

Democrats said Wednesday they did not plan to mount a filibuster, or procedural delays, to indefinitely block the vote, and some of their leading voices seemed to acknowledge that time was running out.

"I would seriously hope that the president — and I really don't have much hope — but I wish the president had taken another look at this and found us someone" else, Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., said.

Republicans said it was time to vote after weeks of exhaustive investigation into allegations that Bolton mistreated subordinates and misused government intelligence. This week's bipartisan agreement on judicial filibusters in the Senate and the approach of the Memorial Day recess, which starts at week's end, seemed to be sapping some of the strength from the effort by Bolton's opponents to erect further roadblocks.

"Where does legitimate due diligence turn into partisanship?" asked Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. "Where does the desire for the truth turn into a competition over who wins and who loses?"

On Wednesday, the Republican leader of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas, said he and his Democratic counterpart had been briefed on the matter and found that Bolton had done nothing improper when asking for the names.

Bolton is currently the undersecretary of state for arms control and one of Bush's most conservative foreign policy advisers. Bush nominated him in March to succeed John Danforth as U.N. ambassador, a plum diplomatic job despite the Bush administration's sometimes chilly attitude toward the world body.

Not all Republicans back Bolton. Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, said Bolton would set back the U.S. goal of reforming the United Nations and lacks the diplomatic touch for the sensitive job of ambassador.

Voinovich implored senators to think hard before voting to approve Bolton. His surprisingly strong opposition forced a delay of last month's planned Foreign Relations Committee vote on Bolton, and the panel subsequently denied Bolton its customary endorsement.

"The message will be lost because our enemies will do everything they can to use Mr. Bolton's baggage to drown his words," Voinovich said. "The issue will be the messenger, not the message."



Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-27 3:19 AM.

"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script
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You'll note that the information they want is, according to the article, classified. That's probably why they haven't gotten it.

Of course the Democratic leadership has an excuse for why they are blocking the Bolton nomination. They always have an excuse.

I just find it telling that, mere days after they struck what was supposed to be landmark policy to end gridlock on nominees, under which they would filibuster only in "extraordinary circumstances," they are already finding reasons to block nominees under circumstances that, to a reasonable person, are not so "extraordinary."

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What I want to know is, is this guy really the best nominee the President can come up with? I'm not saying the President should back down. He thinks this is the guy for the job. But unless I'm mistaken, there are some Republicans who don't agree with the President, and the only reason they are fighting for the vote is the because the President wants this guy. Doesn't that weaken the credibility of this nominee? I wonder if the the President presented someone else (mabybe someone even more disagreeable to the Democrats) for nomination, what kind of impact that would have?


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Quote:

the G-man said:
You'll note that the information they want is, according to the article, classified. That's probably why they haven't gotten it.




There aren't any circumstances under which classified documents can be released to other government officials?

Quote:

Of course the Democratic leadership has an excuse for why they are blocking the Bolton nomination. They always have an excuse.




To you, it may be an excuse, but to them, it may be a very good reason.

Lemme put it to you this way, since you're a lawyer. Let's say you're representing a client, and there's the possibility that some evidence could clear him. Wouldn't you want that evidence presented, no matter how nitpicky your claim might seem to others?

Quote:

I just find it telling that, mere days after they struck what was supposed to be landmark policy to end gridlock on nominees, under which they would filibuster only in "extraordinary circumstances," they are already finding reasons to block nominees under circumstances that, to a reasonable person, are not so "extraordinary."




If you wanna get technical, the agreement was over judicial nominees. Frist himself said that the filibuster ban he was after only would apply to judicial nominees, and nothing else.

Last edited by Darknight613; 2005-05-27 5:43 PM.

"Well when I talk to people I don't have to worry about spelling." - wannabuyamonkey "If Schumacher’s last effort was the final nail in the coffin then Year One would’ve been the crazy guy who stormed the graveyard, dug up the coffin and put a bullet through the franchise’s corpse just to make sure." -- From a review of Darren Aronofsky & Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" script

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