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PenWing said:
Jay, I'm not going to take apart your post piece by piece and counter it point for point. I've made my point. I don't see how your economics argument works for Judaism. I won't comment on other religions because I just don't know them well enough, so I would be doing them a diservice. But I do know my own religion. You attacked it, I am saying I just don't see how your attack works against it. I've offered up proof. You've said nothing to disprove me. Doc's right in that what you have said has been inaccurate.

My method here is quite simple. You have made a very broad statement encompassing all religions. I have taken the one religion I do know and said I don't see how your argument is applicable to it.. At this point, the burden of proof is on you. And if you can't apply the argument to one religion, you need to either alter your statement, or admit that your statement is incorrect.



You want to know how this applies to Jews. Fine.

Except for the last 50 or 60 years no one in power really gave a fuck what Jews thought or did. If you got out of line the king or czar or whatever royal title happened to control the area would announce that the Jews were to blame for name your disaster. The local populace would ethnicly cleanse itself of the outsiders, sieze what ever property was left behind and go on about their merry way. Being a hated minority has it's draw backs!

Along comes the 20th century and the age of oil. Just our luck that the largest reserves are located in a part of the world that is hostile to western interests. Something about the occupation by the British Empire.

How do we keep the Muslim locals in line? Well, drawing the map without regard to ethnicity or religious sect was a good start. It assured there would be chronic infighting among the locals. But we still need a preseance to present an armed threat. How about we get the Jews to do it? We offer them land that isn't ours to begin with and provide money to establish the state of Israel!
Young Jews, anxious to return to God's Promised Land would gladly sacrifice their lives to restore the Jewish homeland. They could also provide a proxy threat to the Muslim natives should their rulers become uncooperative with the western powers.

It was a great sales job! And it could not have been done without the support of Jewish believers and religious institutions. Today, Israel is the largest recipient of US aid both militarily and economic. They make the world safe for the dollar and keep the Saud family in power. Thank you guys! We'll give you dough but we still don't want you in our country clubs!

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." John Stuart Mill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. Oscar Wilde He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.