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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Prometheus said:
I think it was obvious TNG had a main gay character for about four years.......Wesley Crusher, anyone? Scared of girls, super-smart, perfectly groomed hair....come on! Get the picture!
He dated Ashley Judd in the ep, THE GAME.
Love that episode, Jim..will be taping it in a few weeks, as soon as G 4 runs it again.
THE GAME was a good metaphor....for drug use. 
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
But if TREK ever reappears, the lack of a gay main character will indeed be grounds for me to take it to task and believe me, I will.
Let me ask you this: How would that serve the series as a whole?
I mean, I can understand if you have a character...cool...in charge...whatever. And, then, at some point, you hear he has a date on the ship that night. The audience must automatically assume it's some chick. But then BAM!, there he is in Ten Forward with Lt. Kyle Smith!
But, forcing the issue....making a character "just to be gay"...that would be a disservice towards the homosexual community in my view. It limits their lifestyle to a two-dimensional character trait, as opposed to it just being a fact of their life.
Besides, you could never have an episode that "explorers homosexuality" in a "Afternoon Special" kind of way. If homosexuality isn't just another facet of normal life by the 24th century....if it is still an "issue"...then, I would say that civilization hasn't progressed much in four-hundred years.
For me, the most respectful I've ever seen homosexual character realized in fiction is in the comic 'The Authority'. Here you have these two Superman and Batman analogues, Midnighter and Apollo. Badass. Hardcore. The ultimate fighter, and the man who walks like a god. They are the heart and soul of that team.
Oh, and look....they're kissing.
That's how it was presented in the run. It wasn't "Hey here's Midnighter and Apollo, the GAY members of Authority!". It was taken matter-of-factly, and nonchalantly. That was genuinely respectful and believable. For the homosexual community, it was gays being represented in a positive light. For the heterosexual community...and especially those who may not be comfortable with the lifestyle...it wasn't shoved in their face to the point of "ACCEPT ME! ACCEPT ME!".
Or, take Captain Jack Harkness on Doctor Who. Smooth talking, cool, conman. Rough and tumble. Funny. Han Solo all the way. And, by the way, he'll hook up with The Doctor just as fast as he would hook up with Rose.Omni-sexual, as he called himself. And fans love that character to PIECES. He is one of my favorite fictional characters. And not once has his sexuality been a focal point or an "issue".
That's how I think any character, homsexual or heterosexual, should be represented on Trek. As just another character.
Thoughts?
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
He was a kid, gang.
Jim, lighten up. No one is being that serious...
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If..when ....they create another Trek show..and I hope it won't be for at least another ten years..I hope they can make it as fresh as Next Generation was when it aired back in 1987 - 1994.
I remember watching those episodes and going " Wow...." a lot then.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Thoughts?
Many thoughts.
Quote:
Let me ask you this: How would that serve the series as a whole?
I mean, I can understand if you have a character...cool...in charge...whatever. And, then, at some point, you hear he has a date on the ship that night. The audience must automatically assume it's some chick. But then BAM!, there he is in Ten Forward with Lt. Kyle Smith!
But, forcing the issue....making a character "just to be gay"...that would be a disservice towards the homosexual community in my view.
I'm sorry, but your view is in error. It fails to grasp a few obvious aspects:
1. there are gay people in the real world; good SF always has something to say about the real world
2. there are TONS of gay Trek fans; to deny them representation within Trek is akin to not having any blacks on the ENTERPRISE.
Quote:
It limits their lifestyle to a two-dimensional character trait, as opposed to it just being a fact of their life.
Does it limit any str8 character to depict him or her in a relationship?
I'm not saying "create a queer just to have a queer." I'm saying "create a queer character who's a substantive character."
I do not see how this is so difficult to grasp. When you think it might be a bad thing to do, just substitute the word "black" or "asian" with gay and then rethink your position.
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
But if TREK ever reappears, the lack of a gay main character will indeed be grounds for me to take it to task and believe me, I will.
Let me ask you this: How would that serve the series as a whole?
I mean, I can understand if you have a character...cool...in charge...whatever. And, then, at some point, you hear he has a date on the ship that night. The audience must automatically assume it's some chick. But then BAM!, there he is in Ten Forward with Lt. Kyle Smith!
But, forcing the issue....making a character "just to be gay"...that would be a disservice towards the homosexual community in my view. It limits their lifestyle to a two-dimensional character trait, as opposed to it just being a fact of their life.
Besides, you could never have an episode that "explorers homosexuality" in a "Afternoon Special" kind of way. If homosexuality isn't just another facet of normal life by the 24th century....if it is still an "issue"...then, I would say that civilization hasn't progressed much in four-hundred years.
For me, the most respectful I've ever seen homosexual character realized in fiction is in the comic 'The Authority'. Here you have these two Superman and Batman analogues, Midnighter and Apollo. Badass. Hardcore. The ultimate fighter, and the man who walks like a god. They are the heart and soul of that team.
Oh, and look....they're kissing.
That's how it was presented in the run. It wasn't "Hey here's Midnighter and Apollo, the GAY members of Authority!". It was taken matter-of-factly, and nonchalantly. That was genuinely respectful and believable. For the homosexual community, it was gays being represented in a positive light. For the heterosexual community...and especially those who may not be comfortable with the lifestyle...it wasn't shoved in their face to the point of "ACCEPT ME! ACCEPT ME!".
Or, take Captain Jack Harkness on Doctor Who. Smooth talking, cool, conman. Rough and tumble. Funny. Han Solo all the way. And, by the way, he'll hook up with The Doctor just as fast as he would hook up with Rose.Omni-sexual, as he called himself. And fans love that character to PIECES. He is one of my favorite fictional characters. And not once has his sexuality been a focal point or an "issue".
That's how I think any character, homsexual or heterosexual, should be represented on Trek. As just another character.
Thoughts?
I agree on this wholeheartedly. I want to see a GAY character in Trek..I just don't want a character who is gay MERELY to have a gay character......I want to see a character who just happens to be gay. That is how I see myself. I have many interests. I have my hopes, my dreams, my ups and downs..and I just happen to be gay..much like others here are themselves with their lives. ...only they are straight.
Having any character be believable and real is just good writing.....be they a gay or straight one.... a gay character ought to be filled out and given a history...feelings...likes, dislikes..same as any other character.
The main cast of Next Generation seemed real to us because they were written and performed that way.
That is all I expect in a gay Trek character....or any other Trek personality, for that matter.
If a gay character is to be accepted..it ought to be on his own merit as a personality. Not as a man or woman who pushes his sexuality onscreen and turns it into a big issue. Just have him - her be like anybody else.
Human.
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
I do not see how this is so difficult to grasp. When you think it might be a bad thing to do, just substitute the word "black" or "asian" with gay and then rethink your position.
And I think you need to go back re-read what I wrote before you knee-jerk me in with the crowd. When, my entire point was...
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
I'm not saying "create a queer just to have a queer." I'm saying "create a queer character who's a substantive character."
...that. If THAT is what you're saying, then, I agree. I just don't want to watch an episode of Trek where it's a hard life for Lt. Smith because he's gay. It would be an irrelevant fact by that century, logically speaking. It should be as normal as Kirk snogging a chick. No better. No worse...
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I agree on this wholeheartedly. I want to see a GAY character in Trek..I just don't want a character who is gay MERELY to have a gay character......I want to see a character who just happens to be gay. That is how I see myself. I have many interests. I have my hopes, my dreams, my ups and downs..and I just happen to be gay..much like others here are themselves with their lives. ...only they are straight.
Having any character be believable and real is just good writing.....be they a gay or straight one.... a gay character ought to be filled out and given a history...feelings...likes, dislikes..same as any other character.
The main cast of Next Generation seemed real to us because they were written and performed that way.
That is all I expect in a gay Trek character....or any other Trek personality, for that matter.
If a gay character is to be accepted..it ought to be on his own merit as a personality. Not as a man or woman who pushes his sexuality onscreen and turns it into a big issue. Just have him - her be like anybody else.
Human.
See, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Homosexuals should be accepted as equal in all measures of life, not the equal-but-seperate bullshit.
Well spoken Jerry...
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I guess I have to ask, after all the times I have posted on the RKMBs, did you really think I advocated creating a queer Trek character just to have a queer character? A character that had no depth other than his faggery?
C'mon...
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
I guess I have to ask, after all the times I have posted on the RKMBs, did you really think I advocated creating a queer Trek character just to have a queer character? A character that had no depth other than his faggery?
C'mon...
Well, that's the way I was interpeting you, yeah. Which is why I had to say all of this. It surprised me, coming from you. Obviously I was mistaken from what I just read...
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I guess I still have work to do here....
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Quote:
Prometheus said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I agree on this wholeheartedly. I want to see a GAY character in Trek..I just don't want a character who is gay MERELY to have a gay character......I want to see a character who just happens to be gay. That is how I see myself. I have many interests. I have my hopes, my dreams, my ups and downs..and I just happen to be gay..much like others here are themselves with their lives. ...only they are straight.
Having any character be believable and real is just good writing.....be they a gay or straight one.... a gay character ought to be filled out and given a history...feelings...likes, dislikes..same as any other character.
The main cast of Next Generation seemed real to us because they were written and performed that way.
That is all I expect in a gay Trek character....or any other Trek personality, for that matter.
If a gay character is to be accepted..it ought to be on his own merit as a personality. Not as a man or woman who pushes his sexuality onscreen and turns it into a big issue. Just have him - her be like anybody else.
Human.
See, that is exactly what I'm talking about. Homosexuals should be accepted as equal in all measures of life, not the equal-but-seperate bullshit.
Well spoken Jerry...
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
I guess I still have work to do here....
Your smiling face is enough... 
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That's the nicest thing anyone said to me all day....<sniff>
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He's str8, so what's the point?
Or is it just that you'd like to watch?
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the Reds should be good this year.
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Quote:
PJP said:
you should kiss.
I didn't shave this morning...
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Maybe they eliminated the gene for homosexuality in the future...perhaps during the eugenics wars involving Kahn.
Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
That's a fairly assinine remark. I'll just view it as you being silly and give it no more credence.
Okay, it was a little silly. However...
As I recall, there are a number of Trek episodes, both in the original series and beyond, that hint there were some dark eras of human history between "our" time and the time of Trek. For example, the genetic supermen war that Kahn was involved in.
If there was genetic tinkering going on in the past, during an unenlightened time period, whos to say that some "President Falwell" didn't give the order to eliminate the gene that causes homosexuality, on the theory that homosexuals don't allow for efficient expansion of the species?
Unless the writers were to stack the deck to make that genetic tinkering seem like a good idea (unlikely) why couldn't there be a suitably enlightended Trek backstory to explain that's why there are no "gays in space"?
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Wasn't the Federation a socialistic utopia where they had no need for money?
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Then I don't want to live in no stinkin' Federation.
Even if they did cure homosexuality.
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Yeah, sorta. It depends on who was writing that, but they sort glossed over it.
Either way, I'm not saying that the Federation would have eliminated gays, but that its possbile the "gay gene" was eliminated BEFORE the utopia was realized, for example, during the time of Kahn.
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Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I agree on this wholeheartedly. I want to see a GAY character in Trek..I just don't want a character who is gay MERELY to have a gay character......I want to see a character who just happens to be gay. That is how I see myself. I have many interests. I have my hopes, my dreams, my ups and downs..and I just happen to be gay..much like others here are themselves with their lives. ...only they are straight.
Having any character be believable and real is just good writing.....be they a gay or straight one.... a gay character ought to be filled out and given a history...feelings...likes, dislikes..same as any other character.
The main cast of Next Generation seemed real to us because they were written and performed that way.
That is all I expect in a gay Trek character....or any other Trek personality, for that matter.
If a gay character is to be accepted..it ought to be on his own merit as a personality. Not as a man or woman who pushes his sexuality onscreen and turns it into a big issue. Just have him - her be like anybody else.
Human.
I absolutely agree with your post! I'd also like to point out that you are a great example of this because up until now, this noob did not know that you were gay. I assumed from Jim and Klinton that gay posters on Rob's Boards wore their sexual orientation on their sleeve, but this is obviously not the case. Can you be on Star Trek?
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Quote:
Killconey said:
Quote:
Beardguy57 said:
I agree on this wholeheartedly. I want to see a GAY character in Trek..I just don't want a character who is gay MERELY to have a gay character......I want to see a character who just happens to be gay. That is how I see myself. I have many interests. I have my hopes, my dreams, my ups and downs..and I just happen to be gay..much like others here are themselves with their lives. ...only they are straight.
Having any character be believable and real is just good writing.....be they a gay or straight one.... a gay character ought to be filled out and given a history...feelings...likes, dislikes..same as any other character.
The main cast of Next Generation seemed real to us because they were written and performed that way.
That is all I expect in a gay Trek character....or any other Trek personality, for that matter.
If a gay character is to be accepted..it ought to be on his own merit as a personality. Not as a man or woman who pushes his sexuality onscreen and turns it into a big issue. Just have him - her be like anybody else.
Human.
I absolutely agree with your post! I'd also like to point out that you are a great example of this because up until now, this noob did not know that you were gay. I assumed from Jim and Klinton that gay posters on Rob's Boards wore their sexual orientation on their sleeve, but this is obviously not the case. Can you be on Star Trek?
Thanks! I would not personally want to be a gay character on Star Trek, however, in light of how well he played a drag queen in " Holiday Heart ", I would love to see Ving Rhames play a gay character in a Star Trek show. Not that I would want Ving to portray a drag queen in space, it's that he did a fantastic job of portraying a gay man in a sensitive way..and I am extrapolating that he would be equally good at playing an officer on Star Trek who is not obviously gay....hopefully at least an executive officer..who would just happen to be a gay black man. My boyfriend is black and he, too, would like to see a gay black man on a Star Trek show.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
As I recall, there are a number of Trek episodes, both in the original series and beyond, that hint there were some dark eras of human history between "our" time and the time of Trek. For example, the genetic supermen war that Kahn was involved in.
If there was genetic tinkering going on in the past, during an unenlightened time period, whos to say that some "President Falwell" didn't give the order to eliminate the gene that causes homosexuality, on the theory that homosexuals don't allow for efficient expansion of the species?
Unless the writers were to stack the deck to make that genetic tinkering seem like a good idea (unlikely) why couldn't there be a suitably enlightended Trek backstory to explain that's why there are no "gays in space"?
Until I see something canonical that states that the "gay gene" was eliminated, then what you're talking about is really nothing more than a fanfic idea. Like Kirk and Spock slash.
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I think G-man was trying to say they cured homosexuality not eliminated it. Does that help?
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No.
I do not feel I need to be "cured." Do we need to "cure" left-handedness? Do we need to "cure" brown eyes? Do we need to "cure" men under 6 ft?
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No....I agree with you G-Man is wrong on this one.
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Sulu was gay. Everybody was OK with it.
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Worf could have gone either way.
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G-Man is silly to propose that in the TREK universe there might ever have been a permanent "cure" or "removal" (however that might be done) of homosexuality. I feel confident in saying that that idea will never see the light of canon.
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Quote:
Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Sulu was gay. Everybody was OK with it.
I went over this yesterday.
George Takei, the human actor, is gay.
To the best of my knowledge, there has been nothing canonical that outs the character Hikaru Sulu as gay.
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What about what I said.....about it being a scoialistic utopia. I never really got that feeling. There were people that seemed to have more than others. Piccard however explained it once in First Contact saying we have no need of money anymore.
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Quote:
Jim Jackson said:
Quote:
Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Sulu was gay. Everybody was OK with it.
I went over this yesterday.
George Takei, the human actor, is gay.
To the best of my knowledge, there has been nothing canonical that outs the character Hikaru Sulu as gay.
What? He should run about the Enterprise in a tu tu and tiara?
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Quote:
PJP said:
What about what I said.....about it being a scoialistic utopia. I never really got that feeling. There were people that seemed to have more than others. Piccard however explained it once in First Contact saying we have no need of money anymore.
Acctully they do get paid.
The no money line is in the Starfleet handbook under how to get free pizza from people from the past.
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Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
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Jim Jackson said:
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Ultimate Jaburg53 said:
Sulu was gay. Everybody was OK with it.
I went over this yesterday.
George Takei, the human actor, is gay.
To the best of my knowledge, there has been nothing canonical that outs the character Hikaru Sulu as gay.
What? He should run about the Enterprise in a tu tu and tiara?
Only if Balloonknot was portraying the character.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1
We already are 15000+ posts
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We already are 15000+ posts
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 32,001 Likes: 1 |
Romulan Ale is illegal in the Federation.
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