Quote: Rob Kamphausen said: but i'll also hold, strongly, that watching player A vs player B, rather than their stats, will often give you a more realistic and appropriate read -- allbeit a more difficult one to debate on message boards.
for example, i'd readily nominate jeter as mvp in most any season, despite (many) others having monumentally higher stat lines.
I'm sure just about anybody who watched Jeter on a frequent basis would arrive at the conclusion that he's pretty good. Probably even pretty great.
The only problem(and I'm not picking on Yankee/Jeter fans; this is simply continuing your example) is in saying that Jeter is the MVP of the league, on the basis that...well, you watched him. It's not like you watched most of, or even half of the games every other player in the AL played. Even those who watch a lot of baseball only get to see certain players in small, inconsecutive pockets.
One of the principle ideas in the book you mention, "Moneyball", is that the eyes can often deceive. We can watch players that look spectacular, compared to players that, well, don't, and our eyes tell us that the spectacular looking guy is better, when that isn't always the case.
Incidentally, I do think Jeter is a legitimate MVP candidate this year(for the first time this millenium). Not who I'd pick as "the guy" at this point, but certainly, given the position he plays, top 5. His best season since '99.
Quote: aye, thats the main one i was refering to. "moneyball"
It's a good book, and many of the theories expressed in it are based on the work of the great Bill James.
Quote: true, but i refuted it all the same, as it is my argument that the intangible aspects of the game that leaders like bernie provide have more merit than it sounded like you had given credit for.
Fair enough. It is my argument that any intangible qualities he provides he will still be able to provide as a bench hitter and occasional starter, and that his replacement, whether it be Sheffield or Matsui, will provide better tangible qualities(i.e hitting and fielding). Thus, everybody wins.
Quote: well, for that argument, matsui has had more downs than any of the four this season (hand asplosion, aside)
His batting average was lower, but even in his off year, he still had better all-around numbers than both Bernie and Melky. His walk-rate was better, he hit with more power, he had a higher OPS. Of course, this was all in a fairly small sample size. Only 119 at bats. Less than a fifth of the season.
Quote: nah.
you can hire a bunch of NFL linebackers to be on your college scrimmage team, too, to kick some ass. humorously, even. but it'll still be a disruption to the former team.
I don't see how this comparison fits. The Yankees aren't bringing Matsui and Sheffield back just to practice with the team. If you put a bunch of NFL linebackers on your college team, to play, chances are, that college team would be better.
You really haven't specified how it's a disruptance. I doubt they'll be much resentment, on anyone's part. Afterall, they're all professionals, and they must know who the team has a better chance to win with. You've admitted that Matsui and Sheffield are likely to produce more, if healthy. Where's the disruptance? Are you saying that the difference between Bernie's intangibles and Sheffield/Matsui's intangibles is going to overcome the large difference in their onfield production? What of Melky Cabrera's intangibles? Are you now attributing similar greatness to him, a 22-year-old kid with no playoff experience, marginal prospect hype and a knowledge of English that isn't any better than Matsui's?
