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But without a player of Marion's skillset to finish, all those plays Nash "created" wouldn't amount to anything. Without Marion's scoring, teams would simply double Nash and force someone else to beat them. If Nash so vital to his team that everyone else was nothing more than a puppet being pulled at the strings, opposing defenses would just force the ball out of his hands. Also, Nash has no role in Marion's rebounding and(as you note)outstanding defense.

One aspect of Nash's game that doesn't receive a lot of attention is the fact that he turns the ball over a lot, even for someone who controls the ball as much as he does. Of the 40 point guards who qualified(those that played 2000 minutes or 70 games), Nash finished 30th in turnover ratio. Not the number of turnovers per game, but the percentage of his possessions that resulted in a turnover. Even guys like Allen Iversion and Stephon Marbury, generally considered to be ball-hogs and turnover-machines, finished well ahead of him.

For a comparison, of the 51 power forwards who qualified, Marion finished fourth in turnover ratio.



yes, but then again, you keep uinderestimating what a good point gaurd can do. sure marion is good, but without nash to get the ball to him then does he get as much. does he get the shots opportunity nash creates. the thing is nash goes from dallas where he did the same thing, to suns, suddenly the suns are running and gunning. amre (who woul dhave been awesome) is instantly awesome. mareion and joe johnsone are wanted all over. it's not coincidence. look at the nets and those players who left kidd. where are they now. what are they doing with out kidd to feed the, and make.

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Dallas has won more games the last half decade than any team other than San Antonio. More than Detroit. Even more than the Lakers.



i started to look that up, but past 2003-04 i had a hard time. but it looks like you could be right. more wins though in the reg doesn't parlay into post season success.



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That completely contradicts your argument in favor of Steve Nash.


no, it's different in that steve plays it, on the perimeter, where dirk has a big man still prefers the perimeter. it gives him a disadvantage to start with. the same one he has on offense, he has to deal with on defense. he has always been soft on defense, hash will still get his steals.

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I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that LeBron is "slowly dragging his team along".



because he is doing it slowly by himself. he is starting to get players to step up, but besides him, who else is there.

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Heh, well, if I'm beating a dead horse, it's because you seem to keep trying to give it life.


no, you seem to not understand what one great playmaker does for players like marion. for instance, joe johnson, or carlos boozer, kenyon martin. great playmaker, and they looked good, but haven't lived up to it once leaving said player.

and i would expect marion as a player not handling the ball to turn it over less. and to rebound more. that comes with the job. nash is there to create, suprise, and get the ball to people like marion so they have to turn shoot, and thus boosting their points and limiting their turnover opportunities.

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That's a nice statement, but you have nothing supporting it, and certainly no way of proving it. Statistically, Marion was one of the 10 best players in basketball last year and, as he's arguably the most underrated player in the game, has also been one of the 15-20 best since 2001, his second year in the league. Although he had slightly down years in '02 and '04, he's ranked in the top 6 in player wins in '01, '03, '05 and now '06 as well. It is worth noting that, since he entered the league in 2000, Marion has ranked ahead of Nash in player wins and win shares every single season, including this season, and last. Most of those years, Nash was the more efficient player, just not the more productive one. This year, as I already said, he was neither.

So, flashy play aside, the evidence seems to suggest that Nash is the more replacable player, not Marion.



no need for me to prove what history has proved for me. bulls minus jordan. good, but not the same. same for the players who left nj and kidd. or boozer. or joe johnson, or the count;less players who left a team with an mvp calibre player and did not measure up. how many good forwards with nash would have higher point avgs, wiith nash and his up tempo run n gun? most of them if they are have assed good. but how many point gaurds can deliver. credit where credit is due, he is playing damn good, but easily, nash is the leader, and marion is 2nd banana. to argue nash is easily replaceable that is not true. not many point gaurds of nash's calibre but plenty forwards with marion's abilities that would thrive off a point gaurd who can dish like him. or like kidd in his heyday.


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Animalman said:
I thought either [Nash] or Billups would win, simply because sportswriters are dopes.



However, I wasn't arguing who should have won based on the criteria of idiot sportswriters.



so in your mind nash leading the team with the loss of their big scorer rebouinding athletic amare to a similair record and playoff seeding doesn't already put him as a heavy favorite? he didn't have an outstanding year, but to discount what he did with the suns for any reason is no less dopey. billups is not in nash's league in the fact that he doesn't have one good player, like nash does, he has 4.who really does nash have besides marion. kobe has lamar, and kwame coming along nicely. james, for the same reason as nash should be up there due to his doing it alone venture, but nash is getting more done at this point.