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"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/blogban3.jpg) [/center] [center] ![[Linked Image from i13.photobucket.com]](http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/captainsammitch/boards/banners/jlamiska.jpg) [/center]
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graemlin protector 6000+ posts
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infinite crisis just better be happy it's not facing me in the over the top rope challenge. else it might throw itself over to save the time
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1 Millionth Customer 10000+ posts
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finally a DC version of Onslaught and the Clone Saga all rolled into one.
Bow ties are coool.
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
finally a DC version of Onslaught and the Clone Saga all rolled into one.
You're such a dumas! Whatever shortcomings IC has, it can be in no way compared to the Fuckshitcunt that are Clone saga and Onslaught!
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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Quote:
ROY BATTY said:
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
finally a DC version of Onslaught and the Clone Saga all rolled into one.
You're such a dumas! Whatever shortcomings IC has, it can be in no way compared to the Fuckshitcunt that are Clone saga and Onslaught!
Actually, it can. Onslaught was an attempt to do massive sweeping changes to the marvel universe, turning a hero into a villain, and taking up an assload of time to do it.
The Clone Saga actually was a decent story that got bogged down by marketing departments that wanted to turn every story into a 4-parter, add new number 1's and have constant specials. So that good story that was meant to last 6 months got stretched out into several years.
Infinite Crisis holds many parallels, especially given some of the rumored rewrites.
Bow ties are coool.
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When I say compared to - I should have been more clear! I was thinking that the 2 stories you mentioned could not be compared to Infinite Crisis in quality and my enjoyment.
Needless to say that I loathed the 2 stories you mentioned.
I mention quality, at least DC is putting some big names into these recent projects!
You are going on about how ill-thought out IC is. I think a bit of effort has gone into it and whilst I don't like all the ideas and changes - I'm taking it as it comes.
Onslaught was a mish mash of bollocks - now that was ill-thought out! And what did that lead into - Heroes Reborn, which was co-helmed by Liefeld!
I don't know where to begin with the Clone saga, how about, other then the Romita Jnr art - pure shit.
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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Quote:
ROY BATTY said:
When I say compared to - I should have been more clear! I was thinking that the 2 stories you mentioned could not be compared to Infinite Crisis in quality and my enjoyment.
Needless to say that I loathed the 2 stories you mentioned.
I mention quality, at least DC is putting some big names into these recent projects!
You are going on about how ill-thought out IC is. I think a bit of effort has gone into it and whilst I don't like all the ideas and changes - I'm taking it as it comes.
Onslaught was a mish mash of bollocks - now that was ill-thought out! And what did that lead into - Heroes Reborn, which was co-helmed by Liefeld!
I don't know where to begin with the Clone saga, how about, other then the Romita Jnr art - pure shit.
you missed the whole point. the clone saga was a good idea with big names that got stretched out till it was crap by marketing.
IC is another story that seems to be a marketing department's wet dream.
Onslaught/Heroes Reborn also had being names. So that proves nothing.
My whole point for IC has always been that its stretched out and too densely packed. If it alienates me, then there's probably a hundred, a thousand readers who feel the same way. I'm glad you like it, I'm glad you're buying it. But when the storyline is over, DC will have the face the numbers as they stabilize and cope with the loss of readers like myself.
Bow ties are coool.
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
you missed the whole point.
I missed your whole point because it was unclear or wrong.
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
the clone saga was a good idea with big names that got stretched out till it was crap by marketing.
What big names? GOOD IDEA? The Premise - Peter Parker could be a clone - Kid, you have some problems if you think that's a good idea!
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
IC is another story that seems to be a marketing department's wet dream.
Onslaught/Heroes Reborn also had being names. So that proves nothing.
Again, what big names? And What (going back to your last post) sweeping lastingchanges were planned? Heroes were reborn in a pocket planet with similar origins - WOW!
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
My whole point for IC has always been that its stretched out and too densely packed. If it alienates me, then there's probably a hundred, a thousand readers who feel the same way.
Do you know these hundred maybe thousand readers? I know very few comic readers in the real world and they seem to be enjoying this and they are just buying the mini.
I can't help but think you aren't reading it. IT's easy to follow the story with just the mini. If you want more details on the destruction of Bludhaven, then you buy Nightwing. Of all the crossovers I have ever read, I am finding this the most cohesive - you really don't have to buy all the crossovers without losing anything from the story. Mavel did similarly with House of M!
Quote:
r3x29yz4a said:
But when the storyline is over, DC will have the face the numbers as they stabilize and cope with the loss of readers like myself.
I'm sure they'll try to cope with your loss. I'm not big into sales figures but since you brought up how thousands will be dropping DC books - At the moment, the mini is a big seller. The tie ins are a big seller. Almost all the OYL have sold out, you say stabilize, DC are capitalising these sales spikes by putting great teams on their books! Look at Batman - James Robinson is on it now and is followed by Grant Morrison and Paul Dini! Yeah Batman will be losing sales soon......silly boy.
Look, I love me my Marvel and DC books, love them to bits, couldn't pick one company over the other.
You are pissing on DC for following the same practices as Marvel, only DC is doing it better. I can't remember whether it is on this thread or another but you are harping on about lasting changes after IC - how long have you been reading comics? Lasting changes and comics do not mix, they never have!
You or someone else mentions hastily (unproven)rewrites in IC, After House of M - Marvels so-called monumental event failed to deliver, I can't help but think Civil War has been hastily(unproven) thrown together.
I referred to you as a Dumas, like him, you really need to give up Superhero books because they are just not delivering for you anymore - it'll save you money and save us from your incessant whingeing.
Last edited by ROY BATTY; 2006-04-28 5:03 AM.
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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I don't think it has any integrity as a story, but I'm enjoying Infinite Crisis a lot, and I'm looking forward to 52 because of Morrie's involvement and the main characters they chose (I love Question, Animalman, Steel and Booster, and don't mind the others). At DC they're doing a great job at keeping things exciting. Marvel, on the other hand, seems like it's pulling crossovers out of its ass to keep up with DC. At DC they may be using an old idea for their crossover, but with Marvel it's even worse because they're using old ideas for several crossovers:
- House of M is the typical "alternate reality" "OH YES KIDS IT'S REALLY HAPPENING! oh wait now it's not" crossover. They promised consequences, but they're flawed: Spidey's angst seems to be playing anywhere but in his own titles, because they were already involved in another (convulted and lame) crossover; Wolvie remembering his origin is a good idea, but let's see how they use it; "Deadly Genesis" is a poorly written "Identity Crisis" rip off, in both premise and style; "Son of M" is actually pretty good; the "No More Mutans" shit is practically useless because 99% of the important mutants "just happened" to be unaffected by it.
- Annhilation is supposed to explore and revitilize Marvel's cosmic side, because it's been neglected for years. That was exactly what The Rann-Thannagar War was for.
- Civil War: I wonder what period they're trying to appeal to with the name War. Maybe something close to a Crisis? Hero vs. Hero? Oh my Gob, we've never seen that in the Marvel Universe. There's a spin on it this time, though: It involves a superhero registration act. What an Incredible idea, to make the Watchmen register! Of course, this will end with Iron Man saying "What have I done?? What have I caused??" and Cap replying "You did what you thought was right. Let us fuck."
Maybe some of these books are more understandable on their own without reading the tie-ins, but they cause the opposite problem: they make the characters' own continuity convulted, because they're supposed to be affected by all these crossovers at once, and sometimes by their own internal crossovers at the same time.
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Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
- House of M is the typical "alternate reality" "OH YES KIDS IT'S REALLY HAPPENING! oh wait now it's not" crossover.
Idea was shit, a clear rip-off of the Age of Apocalypse.
Quote:
They promised consequences, but they're flawed: Spidey's angst seems to be playing anywhere but in his own titles,
The whole idea was shit. Execution of it was shit aswell.
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because they were already involved in another (convulted and lame) crossover;
Shit.
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Wolvie remembering his origin is a good idea, but let's see how they use it;
Shit from what I've read at BrokenFrontier. No definitive answers and more pointless searching for them
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"Deadly Genesis" is a poorly written "Identity Crisis" rip off,
Yeah, that was rather blatent. IDC was much bigger in scope, but DG has a decent idea for Brubaker to run with. That being a mad 3rd Summers brother who's uber-powerful. Better than creepy ol' pervert guy who still can't get his due.
Shit.
Quote:
"Son of M" is actually pretty good;
This is a pointless sentence because I know nothing of this series.
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the "No More Mutans" shit is practically useless because 99% of the important mutants "just happened" to be unaffected by it.
Guess what that was?!
Shit
and rather convenient
still, Xavier and Magneto are de-powered, so they atleast made an attempt to try and fool us into believing something happened
Quote:
- Annhilation is supposed to explore and revitilize Marvel's cosmic side, because it's been neglected for years. That was exactly what The Rann-Thannagar War was for.
Rann/Thanagar Was was a pointless copy of Kree/Skrull War, not much like the concept of re-invigorating the cosmic characters like Marvel are trying. if DC were trying that aswell, they failed.
the whole OMAC thing is a copy of the Sentinels aswell, specifically those Sentinels with a gooey human inside who were unsuspecting. Not sure if they were actually in the comics, but they had a big part in the X-men: Legends game
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- Civil War: I wonder what period they're trying to appeal to with the name War. Maybe something close to a Crisis? Hero vs. Hero? Oh my Gob, we've never seen that in the Marvel Universe. There's a spin on it this time, though: It involves a superhero registration act. What an Incredible idea, to make the Watchmen register!
JSA fans scream that its a blatent copy of when the Justice Society were forced to register or give up. Same premise, just done on a bigger scope and done in much more detail. just like IC was about a standard nut-job who threatened everything with his craziness and forced the heroes to step in. thats been done to death aswell, its just not as niche as a superhuman registration
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Of course, this will end with Iron Man saying "What have I done?? What have I caused??" and Cap replying "You did what you thought was right. Let us fuck."
An interesting theory, and one that plagues me with horrible mental images of the 2 kissing.
Quote:
Maybe some of these books are more understandable on their own without reading the tie-ins, but they cause the opposite problem: they make the characters' own continuity convulted, because they're supposed to be affected by all these crossovers at once, and sometimes by their own internal crossovers at the same time.
Yeah Marvel suck at this. They're obviously trying too hard to keep their market share over DC, but with DC's horrible timing of OYL before IC's end and 52 and all the other extensive shit, Marvel are still winning, even though DC should be pissing on them from a greater height
Atleast Marvel are trying to deliver these 'consequences' and reprucussions in their crossovers, while DC are choosing what seems to be another continuity reboot to fix their problems the easy way, not to mention absolutely nothing consequential will come from the end of IC besides some pointless deaths and a Trinity year-off that means nothing except in one series
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
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Quote:
Son of Mxy said:
The only info I ever got from the article is that marvel will have another big event centering on their space characters and it's going to include all the big names(hardly anything special these days). The rest are just the creators pounding their chests. "ME SO GOOD. THIS GONNA BE GREATEST BIG EVENT EVAR."
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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Quote:
Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
- Civil War: I wonder what period they're trying to appeal to with the name War. Maybe something close to a Crisis? Hero vs. Hero? Oh my Gob, we've never seen that in the Marvel Universe. There's a spin on it this time, though: It involves a superhero registration act. What an Incredible idea, to make the Watchmen register! Of course, this will end with Iron Man saying "What have I done?? What have I caused??" and Cap replying "You did what you thought was right. Let us fuck."
Sounds like you have inside information!
How come Cap and Iron Man always have these fallings out! I loved it in the Korvac Saga and Armour Wars but I'm getting tired of it!
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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Quote:
Flameswordsman said:
Atleast Marvel are trying to deliver these 'consequences' and reprucussions in their crossovers, while DC are choosing what seems to be another continuity reboot to fix their problems the easy way, not to mention absolutely nothing consequential will come from the end of IC besides some pointless deaths and a Trinity year-off that means nothing except in one series
Quote:
ROY BATTY sang:
Lasting changes and comics do not mix, they never have!
Last edited by ROY BATTY; 2006-04-28 8:40 PM.
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Flameswordsman said:
Atleast Marvel are trying to deliver these 'consequences' and reprucussions in their crossovers, while DC are choosing what seems to be another continuity reboot to fix their problems the easy way, not to mention absolutely nothing consequential will come from the end of IC besides some pointless deaths and a Trinity year-off that means nothing except in one series
Yeah, remember when they killed off Hawkeye? He's still dead to this da........ What? He's back now? Right.
Remember when they killed Magne........................................ He's back too, huh?
Well, they took away Iceman's powers, so he can no longer.............................. He got them back, huh?
Right.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
Flameswordsman said:
Atleast Marvel are trying to deliver these 'consequences' and reprucussions in their crossovers, while DC are choosing what seems to be another continuity reboot to fix their problems the easy way, not to mention absolutely nothing consequential will come from the end of IC besides some pointless deaths and a Trinity year-off that means nothing except in one series
Yeah, remember when they killed off Hawkeye? He's still dead to this da........ What? He's back now? Right.
Remember when they killed Magne........................................ He's back too, huh?
Well, they took away Iceman's powers, so he can no longer.............................. He got them back, huh?
Right.
3 examples. Hawkeyes death was not supposed to be a death based on how he went out [Marvel couldn't have been foolish enough to think it would stick]
Morrison turning Magneto into a junky and then killing him off was terribly ill-concieved, especially with the X-movies. I dont know why he even tried it
The Iceman thing was shit. Like I said, it is a riduclous coinsidence to think that nearly all the popular mutants are unotuched by the de-powering
Theres also what happened to Thor and Asgard, Quicksilver being an evil git, The Marvel Government jailing heroes and villains who don't register, Daredevils public outing and jailing, the New Avengers, SHIELD completely changing after Fury left etc.... What exactly has happened over at DC that will be long lasting, the death of B-listers so they can be placed by minority's in a forced move to show they aren't racist?! [Firestorm, Atom, Beetle]
Lets play DC's side for a moment with their reprucussions aswell
Flash's 'death' just like Hawkeyes
Superboy dying to fix DC's lawsuit, just so they can bring him back straight away OYL
A year without the Trinity thats means absolutely nothing except in one title
Reversing Hal and the GL Corp. because of fanboy pressure
I know things work both ways, but while Marvel are trying to alter their staus quo and keep things interesting DC are content to sweep things under the rug with reboots and play the same ol' tune from the beginning again. Good if you like that sort of thing, but I like a little change and variety that steps out of the usual status-quo
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
--Invader Zim
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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So, when did the Inifite Crisis videogame come out?
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
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How long will the "rift" between Cap and Iron Man last? Really?
How is wiping out 90% of the mutants helpful, if Marvel is just going to turn around and create new ones to take their place? Or, re-power them again?
Is killing off Alpha Flight something major and impressive? Or is it just "the death of B-listers"?
How was Magneto becoming a junkie and killed ill-concieved? Because he tried to push things forward and make interesting changes? Or because Marvel immediately caves under marketing pressure, pulls a "sweep-under-the-rug" retcon by making him Xorn/Not-Xorn/Xorn's brother, and having him return to being *yawn* sameold, sameold?
Come on. DC may not be the greatest purveyor of 21st century comics, but, by comparison they've always had more balls at changing and progressing than Marvel ever will...
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Son of Anarchist 15000+ posts
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Quote:
Son of Mxy said:
The only info I ever got from the article is that marvel will have another big event centering on their space characters and it's going to include all the big names(hardly anything special these days). The rest are just the creators pounding their chests. "ME SO GOOD. THIS GONNA BE GREATEST BIG EVENT EVAR."
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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First off, im not a bias'ed Marvel fan. Im just playing Devils Advocate to the Marvel-nay'sayers and trying to illustrate that Marvel rock the boat a little more than DC, even if it is sometimes ill-concieved Quote:
Prometheus said:
How long will the "rift" between Cap and Iron Man last? Really?
Not that long, probably. There are still rumours that Millar will be absconding Cap. to Canada to start up his new Alpha Flight book. Rumours aren't fact, but we all know the industry can't keep spoilers to save their lives
To play devils advocate: just how long did Batmans gripe with Hal Jordon last?! Atleast Cap and Iron Man will have a difference in beliefs, while Hal flat-out fucked Batman over by being in on his mind-wipe. Then he slugs batman in the face, and we're still meant to believe Batman forgave all and they are friends again?! This bag of shit can't be blamed on a big yellow cockroach
Quote:
How is wiping out 90% of the mutants helpful, if Marvel is just going to turn around and create new ones to take their place? Or, re-power them again?
It's not helpful in the slightest, it was a poor move to try and elimate Morrison's progression of the X-franchise and has probably set the X-books back another decade in the way of new idea's
DA: Im sure "new earth" will offer some nice little retcons
Quote:
Is killing off Alpha Flight something major and impressive? Or is it just "the death of B-listers"?
It was cheap and shameless shock-value, just like Firestorm and Superboy's deaths. Mark Millar is reportedly reviving a new Alpha Flight under his pen, so Bendis thought he'd milk the current roster for everything they are worth
Dpends on how you look at it, but I honestly rate the thought of a relaunched team over the induction of a minority in DC's new forced approach or to escape a law-suit
Quote:
How was Magneto becoming a junkie and killed ill-concieved? Because he tried to push things forward and make interesting changes? Or because Marvel immediately caves under marketing pressure, pulls a "sweep-under-the-rug" retcon by making him Xorn/Not-Xorn/Xorn's brother, and having him return to being *yawn* sameold, sameold?
he should have known it wasn't going to stick, that's why it was ill-concieved
Morrison works wonder's, but turning Magneto into a junky who somehow had healing powers was not one of his better idea's. A new approach can sometimes be refreshing, but I get enough of 'crazy terrorist Magneto' in Ultimate X-men, the regular version should sutain some of his anti-hero pretenses, as Marvel immediately did with him joining Xavier as a friend again, being a pawn in House of M, and now he's powerless, no doubt to start some Mutant religion/movement as a figure-head more than enforcer
Look at Luthor aswell, was his drug induced ignorance anygood? Where the Fuck did the idea of Luthor injecting Kryptonite and Venom at the same time come from?! Gladly this has been removed from play aswell
Quote:
Come on. DC may not be the greatest purveyor of 21st century comics, but, by comparison they've always had more balls at changing and progressing than Marvel ever will...
Not true, atleast from my POV.
Look at the list I made in my last post of recent changes and then take a look at Batman, Superman, and the whole Infinite Crisis project. IC is not about change or reprucussions, it's just a "clean slate". Didio's own words. A chance for them to tell a story and at the same time sweep some shit editorial decisions under the carpet at the same time. DC will never have the cojones to change Batman or Superman, and anything they've ever attempted to the contrary has quickly been forgotten or erased, like No Mans Land or Superman Blue. Both just memories with no long lasting effects and nary a mention
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
--Invader Zim
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Quote:
Flameswordsman said:
To play devils advocate: just how long did Batmans gripe with Hal Jordon last?! Atleast Cap and Iron Man will have a difference in beliefs, while Hal flat-out fucked Batman over by being in on his mind-wipe. Then he slugs batman in the face, and we're still meant to believe Batman forgave all and they are friends again?! This bag of shit can't be blamed on a big yellow cockroach
The Bat-Man has been angry at Jordan since the 90's, for the whole Parallax thing. He stayed angry when Hal saved the world in Final Night because that didn't erase his crime, he stayed angry when Hal was "redeemed" and brought back as Spectre, and he stayed angry when it was revealed that Hal was infected by a space tick for letting that happen to himself. Let's see, Hal wenk bonkers in 93 or so... that's about 13 years. Do you think Cap and Iron Man's grudge will last half as long as that?
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It was cheap and shameless shock-value, just like Firestorm and Superboy's deaths. Mark Millar is reportedly reviving a new Alpha Flight under his pen, so Bendis thought he'd milk the current roster for everything they are worth
The Firestorm analogy is correct, since he was only killed because the new book was coming, but Superboy? Are you comparing Superboy's importance in the DCU to Alpha Flight's in the Marvel U? Say what you will about the way it was written, it was still a daring move on DC's part because it's a popular character with a name of worldwide recognition. Who the fuck are Alpha Flight?
And they didn't kill him because of the lawsuit, either: the lawsuit's outcome was just decided, and this had to be written at least a couple of months ago (if you believe the "re-writes" rumour), not to mention that everything in Teen Titans was leading to Superboy's death (subtlety isn't Johns' strong point). Plus, DC is still using Superboy as the main character in the Legion of Superheroes cartoon.
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he should have known it wasn't going to stick, that's why it was ill-concieved
Now you're blaming Morrison because Marvel sucks. I haven't read his New X-Men yet (or played the videogame), but this is like blaming Alan Moore because the LXG movie sucks. "Oh, he should have known a movie adaptation of this would suck when he was writing the comic!". Not everyone keeps a mediocre mindset, you know.
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1. You do not talk about snarf. 7500+ posts
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ROY BATTY said:
How come Cap and Iron Man always have these fallings out! I loved it in the Korvac Saga and Armour Wars but I'm getting tired of it!
Me No Rikey Rob, he's a banana queer!
I shit on Hogan!
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"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
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MisterJLA said:
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Son of Mxy said:
The only info I ever got from the article is that marvel will have another big event centering on their space characters and it's going to include all the big names(hardly anything special these days). The rest are just the creators pounding their chests. "ME SO GOOD. THIS GONNA BE GREATEST BIG EVENT EVAR."
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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Living the dream 15000+ posts
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MisterJLA said:
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MisterJLA said:
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Son of Mxy said:
The only info I ever got from the article is that marvel will have another big event centering on their space characters and it's going to include all the big names(hardly anything special these days). The rest are just the creators pounding their chests. "ME SO GOOD. THIS GONNA BE GREATEST BIG EVENT EVAR."
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
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Flameswordsman said:
DC will never have the cojones to change Batman or Superman, and anything they've ever attempted to the contrary has quickly been forgotten or erased, like No Mans Land or Superman Blue. Both just memories with no long lasting effects and nary a mention
You have a right to your opinion, whether I disagree or not. And, I understand you're just playing Devil's Advocate here. But, as for the above paragraph? Four words:
Crisis. On. Infinite. Earths.
Marvel has never, ever come anywhere near as close to something of that magnitude, or repercussion-wise. You can argue that alot of IC will be undoing that, or, previous/past editorial regimes have undermined the grand progression that the original Crisis caused. But, in the end, you're left with the fact that DC wiped out fifty years of continuity, and the after-effects and repercussions were felt for twenty-years. Marvel has never done a thing that approaches the original Crisis. And, until they have the balls to do so, I have to continue to accept that DC is the leader in progression...John's hack-writing on IC, or not...
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Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
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Flameswordsman said:
To play devils advocate: just how long did Batmans gripe with Hal Jordon last?! Atleast Cap and Iron Man will have a difference in beliefs, while Hal flat-out fucked Batman over by being in on his mind-wipe. Then he slugs batman in the face, and we're still meant to believe Batman forgave all and they are friends again?! This bag of shit can't be blamed on a big yellow cockroach
The Bat-Man has been angry at Jordan since the 90's, for the whole Parallax thing. He stayed angry when Hal saved the world in Final Night because that didn't erase his crime, he stayed angry when Hal was "redeemed" and brought back as Spectre, and he stayed angry when it was revealed that Hal was infected by a space tick for letting that happen to himself. Let's see, Hal wenk bonkers in 93 or so... that's about 13 years. Do you think Cap and Iron Man's grudge will last half as long as that?
I wasn't actually referring to how long it will last, but the senseless conclusion to their spat. You said Cap and Stark will kiss and make up at the end, and I referred to Hal and Bruce doing the same despite the contradiction it was to batmans character. Both pieces of shit, should Civil War actually end with a make-out session between the two
The Hal/Bruce thing was actually resolved before recently when he was the Spectre, aswell. A 2 part JLA mini-series where they went into the Jokers head and Bruce forgave him. DC later decided to ignore this completely
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It was cheap and shameless shock-value, just like Firestorm and Superboy's deaths. Mark Millar is reportedly reviving a new Alpha Flight under his pen, so Bendis thought he'd milk the current roster for everything they are worth
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The Firestorm analogy is correct, since he was only killed because the new book was coming, but Superboy? Are you comparing Superboy's importance in the DCU to Alpha Flight's in the Marvel U? Say what you will about the way it was written, it was still a daring move on DC's part because it's a popular character with a name of worldwide recognition. Who the fuck are Alpha Flight?
Wasn't comparing Superboy and Alpha Flight. Conner is the obvious winner there, especially since Johns has been whoring him out with all his new Superman powers instead of the TK thing he always had [make of that what you will]
His death was a quick-fix for DC what with the law-suit they are going through concerning Superboy and his likeness in the Smallville show. They thought they'd kill him to fix all problems, then bring him back almost immediately OYL. If they were going to kill him they should have atleast made it stick for a while to give us the illusion that they didn't do it all for the law-suit
All of them are seneless deaths for cheap shock-value
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And they didn't kill him because of the lawsuit, either: the lawsuit's outcome was just decided, and this had to be written at least a couple of months ago (if you believe the "re-writes" rumour), not to mention that everything in Teen Titans was leading to Superboy's death (subtlety isn't Johns' strong point). Plus, DC is still using Superboy as the main character in the Legion of Superheroes cartoon.
Please elaborate on the obvious clues Johns was using, I only collect it in Trade-format, so last one I picked up was that God-awful Superboy/Brainiac 8 crossover
While I'd have to believe theres some truth in you're words about his death being written a couple of months back, it's still to coincedental. Maybe DC just planned to kill him anyway regardless of the outcome of the law-suit so they could revive him and stake total claim on the new version, that way theres no more interference from the Siegel or Shuster kid who was sueing
He's not that big of a character either. Still bigger than Alpha Flight, but I'd hardly call it a daring move on DC's part to off him, especially since his comeback is so fast [a couple of weeks after his death to be exact because of DC's horrible IC/OYL schelduling]
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he should have known it wasn't going to stick, that's why it was ill-concieved
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Now you're blaming Morrison because Marvel sucks. I haven't read his New X-Men yet (or played the videogame), but this is like blaming Alan Moore because the LXG movie sucks. "Oh, he should have known a movie adaptation of this would suck when he was writing the comic!". Not everyone keeps a mediocre mindset, you know.
I dont keep a 'mediocre mindset', it was simply foolish to believe Marvel would stick to killing off one of their most popular villains.
Like if DC killed off the Joker or Lex Luthor. Admittedly they are more recognisable than Magneto, but you still don't kill of a well-known villain. Even if the Movies weren't being released you know it would never have stuck, he's simply too much of a money maker and fan-favourite
Dont get me wrong here, I rank Morrison in an elite class of writing alongside Alan moore. Both have never put a foot wrong in their writing careers from my POV. but still, killing off Mags was never going to stick
Also, it does sound a little preposterous, but maybe Morrie had the intention of not making it Magneto and Marvel just never followed up on the whole 'Xorn' angle. The healing powers were a little out of character, as was the drug-addiction, and Morrison doesn't usually write questionable characterisation like that
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
--Invader Zim
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Prometheus said:
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Flameswordsman said:
DC will never have the cojones to change Batman or Superman, and anything they've ever attempted to the contrary has quickly been forgotten or erased, like No Mans Land or Superman Blue. Both just memories with no long lasting effects and nary a mention
You have a right to your opinion, whether I disagree or not. And, I understand you're just playing Devil's Advocate here. But, as for the above paragraph? Four words:
Crisis. On. Infinite. Earths.
Marvel has never, ever come anywhere near as close to something of that magnitude, or repercussion-wise. You can argue that alot of IC will be undoing that, or, previous/past editorial regimes have undermined the grand progression that the original Crisis caused. But, in the end, you're left with the fact that DC wiped out fifty years of continuity, and the after-effects and repercussions were felt for twenty-years. Marvel has never done a thing that approaches the original Crisis. And, until they have the balls to do so, I have to continue to accept that DC is the leader in progression...John's hack-writing on IC, or not...
OK. Admitedly I wasn't even considering COIE, I was debating the current state of the companies
Out of curiosity, why did DC pull of such a grandoise stunt with COIE? Surely it must have pissed off many a fan to see their collections wiped out with 12 short issues. Was it to clean up editorial messes, or just to wipe the slate clean and change the industry?
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
--Invader Zim
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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Flameswordsman said:
I wasn't actually referring to how long it will last, but the senseless conclusion to their spat. You said Cap and Stark will kiss and make up at the end, and I referred to Hal and Bruce doing the same despite the contradiction it was to batmans character. Both pieces of shit, should Civil War actually end with a make-out session between the two
You're contradicting yourself with this:
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The Hal/Bruce thing was actually resolved before recently when he was the Spectre, aswell. A 2 part JLA mini-series where they went into the Jokers head and Bruce forgave him. DC later decided to ignore this completely
When Hal was Spectre, nobody remembered meeting him after he left. So, if Bats forgave him, he wouldn't have remembered the actions that led to that afterwards... But his animosity towards Hal could have been diminished at least subcounsciously. Then we have a couple of other crossovers, like Rebirth and a recent issue of GL, where Bats makes progressively starts getting along with Hal, and finally in IC #6 they're able to shake hands. This is called progression. You could say this was a coincidence, if three of the four meetings I just referenced weren't written by the same guy.
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His death was a quick-fix for DC what with the law-suit they are going through concerning Superboy and his likeness in the Smallville show. They thought they'd kill him to fix all problems, then bring him back almost immediately OYL. If they were going to kill him they should have atleast made it stick for a while to give us the illusion that they didn't do it all for the law-suit
1. As I said, it's improbable that this has anything to do with the lawsuit, that's jsut geeks thinking they can spot conspiracy theories.
2. Huh? WHat gives the impression Conner is coming back? I recall DiDio saying he wasn't in a recent Newsarama interview. Not to mention that he talked about how important this death was in his DC Nation column, comparing it to Supergirl's in the original Crisis.
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Please elaborate on the obvious clues Johns was using, I only collect it in Trade-format, so last one I picked up was that God-awful Superboy/Brainiac 8 crossover
It all started there, actually. First Superboy retires because he's afraid of hurting his friends again. Then in time he makes the heroic decision of coming back to action. There's a whole issue of Teen Titans spotlighting him and Nightwing (the other character besides Wally DC was trying to make us think would die), where they talk about their fears and emotions, and the whole thing reeks of comic book death. Then, there's the Teen Titans annual centered in him and Wonder Girl, where they get emotional and reflect on their past as Young Justice, and finally consumate their relationship.
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While I'd have to believe theres some truth in you're words about his death being written a couple of months back, it's still to coincedental. Maybe DC just planned to kill him anyway regardless of the outcome of the law-suit so they could revive him and stake total claim on the new version, that way theres no more interference from the Siegel or Shuster kid who was sueing
Then they wouldn't have started the cartoon.
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He's not that big of a character either. Still bigger than Alpha Flight, but I'd hardly call it a daring move on DC's part to off him, especially since his comeback is so fast [a couple of weeks after his death to be exact because of DC's horrible IC/OYL schelduling]
What am I missing here? I've been reading the Superman titles and Teen Titans and he hasn't come back. Are you taking geek speculation for granted again?
Also, maybe Conner Kent isn't that big of a character, but Superboy definitely is. The reasoning behind the decision to kill him wasn't to avoid a lawsuit, it was to appeal to the original Crisis once again by killing a member of the Superman family.
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I dont keep a 'mediocre mindset', it was simply foolish to believe Marvel would stick to killing off one of their most popular villains.
Like if DC killed off the Joker or Lex Luthor. Admittedly they are more recognisable than Magneto, but you still don't kill of a well-known villain. Even if the Movies weren't being released you know it would never have stuck, he's simply too much of a money maker and fan-favourite
Dont get me wrong here, I rank Morrison in an elite class of writing alongside Alan moore. Both have never put a foot wrong in their writing careers from my POV. but still, killing off Mags was never going to stick
Again, you're blaming Morrison for something that happened outside his run, something he had nothing to do. Morrie was once asked how he felt about all his changes to the X-franchise being reversed, and he said he didn't care because his run was still there, untouched. By that logic, he wouldn't give a fuck if Magneto was brought back as long as they don't forced HIM to do it.
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Also, it does sound a little preposterous, but maybe Morrie had the intention of not making it Magneto and Marvel just never followed up on the whole 'Xorn' angle. The healing powers were a little out of character, as was the drug-addiction, and Morrison doesn't usually write questionable characterisation like that
I don't know the context for the drug addiction, but didn't Morrie supply an explanation for the healing powers, based on Magneto's abilities? He also expanded Animalman's powers to levels no one had imagined in the 80's, just as Moore did with Swamp Thing, and no one can say those are out of character.
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Regenerated 15000+ posts
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Flameswordsman said:
Out of curiosity, why did DC pull of such a grandoise stunt with COIE? Surely it must have pissed off many a fan to see their collections wiped out with 12 short issues. Was it to clean up editorial messes, or just to wipe the slate clean and change the industry?
Probably a little of both, I would imagine. And, yeah, Silver Age Fanboy purists went apeshit. It's because of their incessant ranting and raving over the past two decades that John's is trying appease them with IC. So, really, fuck those guys... 
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Son of Anarchist 15000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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stick the gun up their ass and pull the trigger until it goes click!
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Im Not Mister Mxypltk said:
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Flameswordsman said:
I wasn't actually referring to how long it will last, but the senseless conclusion to their spat. You said Cap and Stark will kiss and make up at the end, and I referred to Hal and Bruce doing the same despite the contradiction it was to batmans character. Both pieces of shit, should Civil War actually end with a make-out session between the two
You're contradicting yourself with this:
Nice to know. Still got my point across though
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The Hal/Bruce thing was actually resolved before recently when he was the Spectre, aswell. A 2 part JLA mini-series where they went into the Jokers head and Bruce forgave him. DC later decided to ignore this completely
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When Hal was Spectre, nobody remembered meeting him after he left. So, if Bats forgave him, he wouldn't have remembered the actions that led to that afterwards...
Elaborate
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But his animosity towards Hal could have been diminished at least subcounsciously. Then we have a couple of other crossovers, like Rebirth and a recent issue of GL, where Bats makes progressively starts getting along with Hal, and finally in IC #6 they're able to shake hands. This is called progression. You could say this was a coincidence, if three of the four meetings I just referenced weren't written by the same guy.
That is not called "progression", its called "forced", especially how DC has been portraying Batman as even more paranoid over the last few years
Rebirth may have retconned away anything bad that Hal did, but he still punched Batman to the ground. If anything, that worked against their relationship, not for it
You may be able to buy it, but I can't, nor ever will be able to accept that he just forgives the guy who participated in his mind-wipe, especially considering how DC have been playing up his paranoia with Brother Eye, and how he was monumentally pissed about the mind-wipe
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His death was a quick-fix for DC what with the law-suit they are going through concerning Superboy and his likeness in the Smallville show. They thought they'd kill him to fix all problems, then bring him back almost immediately OYL. If they were going to kill him they should have atleast made it stick for a while to give us the illusion that they didn't do it all for the law-suit.
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1. As I said, it's improbable that this has anything to do with the lawsuit, that's jsut geeks thinking they can spot conspiracy theories.
Also a monumental coinsedence seen as the Superboy rights were being contested and now all DC has to do is revive him under a new name and they have full reign over his comics interpretation
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Comic Book Resources said:
Finally, as readers of today’s "Infinite Crisis" #6 can attest, DC has suddenly found itself short a character named Superboy. I'm certainly not suggesting that this necessarily has anything to do with the copyright infringement case, but please note that if Conner Kent were to return later, sans any Superboy connection (as in, a brand new name), then DC will have successfully avoided the copyright issue with Superboy. In addition, here’s an even trickier situation – DC currently still owns a trademark on Superboy, so no one can publish a comic using the name Superboy, even if they owned the copyright to the character! Therefore, DC can simply rename Conner Kent something else until the Siegel’s copyright runs out, at which point, they can return Conner (or whatever other character is introduced between now and 2023) to the name Superboy. In addition, as Time Warner has been quite willing to settle the case (in fact, one of their claims in the past involves their insistence that the Siegels already did settle, but decided to break the settlement agreement and therefore, the Siegels should be bound by the terms of the original settlement), this certainly does not hurt Time Warner’s negotiation position. In any event, it will be interesting to see what path this case takes in the future, as it could have a real impact on the comics we read and the TV shows that we watch.
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2. Huh? WHat gives the impression Conner is coming back? I recall DiDio saying he wasn't in a recent Newsarama interview. Not to mention that he talked about how important this death was in his DC Nation column, comparing it to Supergirl's in the original Crisis.
The 1st Teen Titans issue OYL has Robin already trying to re-clone Superboy. While im sure it won't happen immediately, he WILL be back in the next couple of years.
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Please elaborate on the obvious clues Johns was using, I only collect it in Trade-format, so last one I picked up was that God-awful Superboy/Brainiac 8 crossover
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It all started there, actually. First Superboy retires because he's afraid of hurting his friends again. Then in time he makes the heroic decision of coming back to action. There's a whole issue of Teen Titans spotlighting him and Nightwing (the other character besides Wally DC was trying to make us think would die), where they talk about their fears and emotions, and the whole thing reeks of comic book death. Then, there's the Teen Titans annual centered in him and Wonder Girl, where they get emotional and reflect on their past as Young Justice, and finally consumate their relationship.
Yeah, 'spose that would make sense, I never got 'round to reading the final issues in the trade because of the awful 4 parter about him going rogue
I still think it has a connection to the law-suit, it's just too convenient that DC would kill him off just when his rights are being questioned. I'm already bored with digging up information about the law-suit for this post, so I can't be bothered to see when the law-suit originally started. My basis there would be that DC knew the Seigel's would be contesting the rights [the Seigel's have known since 2004 that they could get them back] and were already prepping him for death to make it seem COIE inspired
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While I'd have to believe theres some truth in you're words about his death being written a couple of months back, it's still to coincedental. Maybe DC just planned to kill him anyway regardless of the outcome of the law-suit so they could revive him and stake total claim on the new version, that way theres no more interference from the Siegel or Shuster kid who was sueing
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Then they wouldn't have started the cartoon.
When was the LOSH cartoon started? There's already fierce speculation that the cartoon is on hold while the law-suit and the rights are finilised. Depends how far along they are and if they believed the new cartoon would be challenged [from what little I know of it, it just started as a spat over Smallville]
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He's not that big of a character either. Still bigger than Alpha Flight, but I'd hardly call it a daring move on DC's part to off him, especially since his comeback is so fast [a couple of weeks after his death to be exact because of DC's horrible IC/OYL schelduling]
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What am I missing here? I've been reading the Superman titles and Teen Titans and he hasn't come back. Are you taking geek speculation for granted again?
Also, maybe Conner Kent isn't that big of a character, but Superboy definitely is. The reasoning behind the decision to kill him wasn't to avoid a lawsuit, it was to appeal to the original Crisis once again by killing a member of the Superman family.
"again"?
He hasn't come back yet, but DC are obviously pushing the idea of his re-cloning. I highly doubt it's all a charade, the character has already become a corner stone of Johns' TT, and we both know what he's like as far as perverting characterisation and comic-book death to get what he wants [example: Kal-L's evilness or stupidness in IC to suit his story]
The basis of you're whole arguement is going on what was said at the DC Column. Did you really expect Didio to admit that they were killing him off to avoid the law-suit?! You're going on what you believe is true, and me what I believe. Theres no point argueing this as we are both going on unreputable sources. You: Didio. Me: The convenience of it all
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I dont keep a 'mediocre mindset', it was simply foolish to believe Marvel would stick to killing off one of their most popular villains.
Like if DC killed off the Joker or Lex Luthor. Admittedly they are more recognisable than Magneto, but you still don't kill of a well-known villain. Even if the Movies weren't being released you know it would never have stuck, he's simply too much of a money maker and fan-favourite
Dont get me wrong here, I rank Morrison in an elite class of writing alongside Alan moore. Both have never put a foot wrong in their writing careers from my POV. but still, killing off Mags was never going to stick
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Again, you're blaming Morrison for something that happened outside his run, something he had nothing to do. Morrie was once asked how he felt about all his changes to the X-franchise being reversed, and he said he didn't care because his run was still there, untouched. By that logic, he wouldn't give a fuck if Magneto was brought back as long as they don't forced HIM to do it.
How am I blaming Morrison for something that accured outside his run?! im not debating the Mutant de-population here, I've already established that that was a crock of shit. Im debating the folly of Morrison killing off Magneto and thinking it would stick
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Also, it does sound a little preposterous, but maybe Morrie had the intention of not making it Magneto and Marvel just never followed up on the whole 'Xorn' angle. The healing powers were a little out of character, as was the drug-addiction, and Morrison doesn't usually write questionable characterisation like that
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I don't know the context for the drug addiction, but didn't Morrie supply an explanation for the healing powers, based on Magneto's abilities? He also expanded Animalman's powers to levels no one had imagined in the 80's, just as Moore did with Swamp Thing, and no one can say those are out of character.
I still refuse to believe that Magneto can use magnetism to amp his strength up to Colossus level, or use the magnetic spectrum to become invisible, or open up dimensional worm-holes for instantaneous transportation. Fuck the explanation behind him also developing healing powers, Marvel have already gone out of control with Magneto and his assorted abilities
He's also not the type to become an addict. I can't say I care how Morrie justified it, its just not in Magneto's character to me, just like Luthor becoming a Kryptonite junkie isn't either
"Now TV's all about format these days isn't it, and I've got a new type for you right here.
Its me and Paris Hilton driving around in a car.... Now I know what you're thinking, but she's in the boot!"
"So you see, 'Ring around the Rosey' refers to the horrible symptoms of a terrifying disease, a disease which.....a disease which....ZIM! Theres a Pigeon on you're head. You have 'Head Pigeons'. get to the Nurse before they spread to the other children."
"Get off my lawn Cookie Beast!"
--Invader Zim
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Timelord. Drunkard. 15000+ posts
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Flameswordsman said:
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But his animosity towards Hal could have been diminished at least subcounsciously. Then we have a couple of other crossovers, like Rebirth and a recent issue of GL, where Bats makes progressively starts getting along with Hal, and finally in IC #6 they're able to shake hands. This is called progression. You could say this was a coincidence, if three of the four meetings I just referenced weren't written by the same guy.
That is not called "progression", its called "forced", especially how DC has been portraying Batman as even more paranoid over the last few years
Rebirth may have retconned away anything bad that Hal did, but he still punched Batman to the ground. If anything, that worked against their relationship, not for it
You may be able to buy it, but I can't, nor ever will be able to accept that he just forgives the guy who participated in his mind-wipe, especially considering how DC have been playing up his paranoia with Brother Eye, and how he was monumentally pissed about the mind-wipe
Are you talking about the Brother Eye that Batman built and uploaded all of his data on metahumans into? The same one that he lost control over? The very same Brother Eye responsible for the deaths of several innocent superhumans? That Brother Eye?
Sometimes the most important reading is reading between the lines.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Jeremy said:
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MisterJLA said:
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MisterJLA said:
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Son of Mxy said:
The only info I ever got from the article is that marvel will have another big event centering on their space characters and it's going to include all the big names(hardly anything special these days). The rest are just the creators pounding their chests. "ME SO GOOD. THIS GONNA BE GREATEST BIG EVENT EVAR."
"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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Flameswordsman said:
Nice to know. Still got my point across though
Yes, the point being that you were contradicting yourself.
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When Hal was Spectre, nobody remembered meeting him after he left. So, if Bats forgave him, he wouldn't have remembered the actions that led to that afterwards...
Elaborate
Since you weren't even nice enough to ask, I'll just repeat the same thing I said in caps, hoping this time you read it with more attention: WHEN HAL WAS SPECTRE, NOBODY REMEMBERED MEETING HIM AFTER HE LEFT.
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That is not called "progression", its called "forced", especially how DC has been portraying Batman as even more paranoid over the last few years
Again, it may be hack writing (Rebirth certainly is), but it's not really forced if it did take place over the course of FOUR separate meetings. That's progression any way you look at it.
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Rebirth may have retconned away anything bad that Hal did, but he still punched Batman to the ground. If anything, that worked against their relationship, not for it
Yeah, and the whole "I didn't really do it, it was a space parasite and now I'll help you defeat it" thing counted for nothing? Like everyone else, I don't like the space parasite thing, but realistically, Bats opinion of Hal's morality should have bettered in some level after learning that, even if their personal interaction still sucked.
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You may be able to buy it, but I can't, nor ever will be able to accept that he just forgives the guy who participated in his mind-wipe, especially considering how DC have been playing up his paranoia with Brother Eye, and how he was monumentally pissed about the mind-wipe
Again, there is progression within Infinite Crisis and the events preceding it showing the consequences of Bats' paranoia not just to the reader but to himself. The issue where he contacts Nightwing and has a tender moment asking him to round up other heroes, is him realizing he can't work alone after all. He needs so much help bringing down Brother Eye that he even calls guys like Ollie and Hal to help him do it: that's a great step for him. This is what IC is supposed to do, leave the dark period behind and make everyone friends again (for better or for worse).
This is simple stuff here buddy, it's not explicit but it's laying in plain view. It's not like this is Watchmen. I can't believe you didn't get any of it.
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Also a monumental coinsedence seen as the Superboy rights were being contested and now all DC has to do is revive him under a new name and they have full reign over his comics interpretation
Geek paranoia, big destroyah.
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Comic Book Resources said:
Finally, as readers of today’s "Infinite Crisis" #6 can attest, DC has suddenly found itself short a character named Superboy. I'm certainly not suggesting that this necessarily has anything to do with the copyright infringement case, but please note that if Conner Kent were to return later, sans any Superboy connection (as in, a brand new name), then DC will have successfully avoided the copyright issue with Superboy. In addition, here’s an even trickier situation – DC currently still owns a trademark on Superboy, so no one can publish a comic using the name Superboy, even if they owned the copyright to the character! Therefore, DC can simply rename Conner Kent something else until the Siegel’s copyright runs out, at which point, they can return Conner (or whatever other character is introduced between now and 2023) to the name Superboy. In addition, as Time Warner has been quite willing to settle the case (in fact, one of their claims in the past involves their insistence that the Siegels already did settle, but decided to break the settlement agreement and therefore, the Siegels should be bound by the terms of the original settlement), this certainly does not hurt Time Warner’s negotiation position. In any event, it will be interesting to see what path this case takes in the future, as it could have a real impact on the comics we read and the TV shows that we watch.
So, uh, ONE article convinced you this was absolute truth? Huh, ok...
If this was really the case, then DC would have simply renamed him. That's what usually happens with quick fixes: you can tell it was improvised because it doesn't fit the story. This does fit the story, as I've said before: the Superboy subplot begins in IC #1 (even before that if you look at Teen Titans) and finds a resolution here. This didn't come out of nowhere.
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The 1st Teen Titans issue OYL has Robin already trying to re-clone Superboy. While im sure it won't happen immediately, he WILL be back in the next couple of years.
1. "Trying". You said he's already back.
2. He's not using Superboy's blood, he's mixing Superman's blood with Luthor's. If he does succeed in creating a clone, it would be nothing like Superboy; in fact, comic book logic tells us that since Superboy was more like Superman, this clone should be more like Luthor, like an evil twin of the dead Superboy. With a superpowered Luthor in his hands, Robin would have to accept that what he was doing was wrong, and finally come to terms with Conner's death. I think this character wouldn't last more than one story arc (or even one issue): he would die in the end, or turn into a bizarro and fall apart.
3. "Trying".
4. In any case, I believe the subplot here won't be the return of Superboy, it will be Robin coming to terms with his death and realizing it's wrong to try to make him come back from the death.
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Yeah, 'spose that would make sense, I never got 'round to reading the final issues in the trade because of the awful 4 parter about him going rogue
I still think it has a connection to the law-suit, it's just too convenient that DC would kill him off just when his rights are being questioned. I'm already bored with digging up information about the law-suit for this post, so I can't be bothered to see when the law-suit originally started. My basis there would be that DC knew the Seigel's would be contesting the rights [the Seigel's have known since 2004 that they could get them back] and were already prepping him for death to make it seem COIE inspired
Wait, wait, so even if this was planned long ago, it's a genuine part of the story and not a "quick fix" as you suggest, whatever the editorial motivation behind the death may be.
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When was the LOSH cartoon started? There's already fierce speculation that the cartoon is on hold while the law-suit and the rights are finilised. Depends how far along they are and if they believed the new cartoon would be challenged [from what little I know of it, it just started as a spat over Smallville]
I read a plot synopsis they released recently, and it mentioned Superboy prominently. Since the synopsis was probably written recently for a press release, I think it would have avoided mentioning Superboy if they thought it was a point of conflict. I'm not sure if there's a release date yet, but it doesn't seem to be taking more than these things usually do.
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What am I missing here? I've been reading the Superman titles and Teen Titans and he hasn't come back. Are you taking geek speculation for granted again?
"again"?
The lawsuit thing. I see a pattern here. Not everything you read in message boards or see in video games is true.
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He hasn't come back yet, but DC are obviously pushing the idea of his re-cloning.
"Obviously pushing his idea of his recloning". Heh. And you got that from ONE page in Teen Titans? I suggest you look up Didio's DC Nation column about Superboy's death and see how, if anything, DC is pushing for this to become another iconic death like Barry Allen's or Supergirl's.
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I highly doubt it's all a charade, the character has already become a corner stone of Johns' TT, and we both know what he's like as far as perverting characterisation and comic-book death to get what he wants [example: Kal-L's evilness or stupidness in IC to suit his story]
Johns IS capable of doing that, but given the big deal they're making about it I doubt he will. Johns never brings back characters he killed himself or that were killed recently, it's always guys like Jericho or Raven, who've been dead for years, so he brings em back for nostalgia purposes.
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The basis of you're whole arguement is going on what was said at the DC Column. Did you really expect Didio to admit that they were killing him off to avoid the law-suit?!
No, but you're missing a big point here: he wouldn't have made such a big deal about it if he was planning to bring him back right away. Wait, did you say right away or in a couple of years? I feel a little retcon coming now.
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You're going on what you believe is true, and me what I believe. Theres no point argueing this as we are both going on unreputable sources. You: Didio. Me: The convenience of it all
Actually, it's more like Me: Common sense and You: Something you read somewhere.
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How am I blaming Morrison for something that accured outside his run?! im not debating the Mutant de-population here, I've already established that that was a crock of shit. Im debating the folly of Morrison killing off Magneto and thinking it would stick
AGAIN: Morrie didn't bring him back. Marvel brought him back. You're blaming Morrie because Marvel brought Magneto back OUTSIDE Morrie's run, when he had nothing to do with it. Once more, you're reading too much into it (though ironically you bypass simple understatements in IC).
Morrie's run is Morrie's run, and it works on its own regardless of what happens afterwards. This may not be the case with most writers of big franchise books, but it is the case with Morrison. I insist: he's said he doesn't care if they reverse his changes outside his run as long as they don't make HIM do the changes. Since he only thinks inside his run, when he killed Magneto he wasn't expecting him to come back since HE wasn't planning to bring him back. That's all that matters. For those of us who will read Morrie's run and skip the rest, Magneto will stay dead.
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I still refuse to believe that Magneto can use magnetism to amp his strength up to Colossus level, or use the magnetic spectrum to become invisible, or open up dimensional worm-holes for instantaneous transportation. Fuck the explanation behind him also developing healing powers, Marvel have already gone out of control with Magneto and his assorted abilities
Well, you're just being the comic book geek that complains that they changed Wolverine's hairdo in the movie here.
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He's also not the type to become an addict. I can't say I care how Morrie justified it, its just not in Magneto's character to me, just like Luthor becoming a Kryptonite junkie isn't either
I think our problem here is that I'm trying to use logic, while you're trying to use comic book message board logic. Both things don't go together well, you know?
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devil-lovin' Bat-Man 15000+ posts
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Flameswordsman said:
Out of curiosity, why did DC pull of such a grandoise stunt with COIE? Surely it must have pissed off many a fan to see their collections wiped out with 12 short issues. Was it to clean up editorial messes, or just to wipe the slate clean and change the industry?
THIS is keeping a mediocre mindset, by the way.
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Quote:
britneyspearsatemyshorts said:
stick the gun up their ass and pull the trigger until it goes click!
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Joined: Sep 2001
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"Hey this is PCG342's bro..." 15000+ posts
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"Are you eating it...or is it eating you?" [center] [/center] [center] [/center]
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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Educator to comprehension impaired (JLA, that is you) 50000+ posts
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