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Quote:
thedoctor said:
Quote:
Chant said:
But I guess the Rules Of Engagement are the first thing to go down the drain when there's a war on
My question to you is, how do you follow the Rules of Engagement when your enemy doesn't. Hezbollah has no qualms about disguiseing military in civilian on medical convoys. Hezbollah has no problem with sticking and launching rockets in/from schools and hospitals. Israel has done all they can to keep civilian casualties down by going so far as to tell villages that civilians need to evacuate within the next few days. How many times has Hezbollah told Israelie citizens to leave an area before dropping rockets in civilian populated areas?
War is terrible, and I wish it wouldn't happen. But I'm not going to be as blind as many in the UN about the fact that the Iranian influenced Hezbollah attacked and kidnapped Israelie soldiers, are purposefully targetting civilians with rocket attacks, and are endangering Lebanon civilians by operating right in the midst of residential areas. Where's the public outcry from the UN on Hezbollah's tactics? I think Israel's attack on the Palestinian Minister of Health (I think it was that one) who wasn't even a memeber of Hamas was out of line, but I'm not going to blame them when the world essentially turns their back on Israel and condemns them while letting their enemies bomb the hell out of them without so much as a word.
criminals don't follow the law, and yet the police has to!
simplified answer, I know, and not really the same. But one mans crime does not justify yours.
Sending an airstrike down on a car in an area with civilians to kill ONE man is illegal!
It doesn't matter that Hizbollah doesn't follow the R.O.E. It's still illegal!
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True, true. It's like the old saw that goes something like "Those who hunt monsters should take pains to ensure they do not become monsters themselves."
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
True, true. It's like the old saw that goes something like "Those who hunt monsters should take pains to ensure they do not become monsters themselves."
"I offer you a Vulcan prayer, Mr Suder. May your death bring you the peace you never found in life." - Tuvok. 
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Thank you, Sammitch. I'd love some. Make mine with cheddar cheese and bacon. Chop, chop!
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
Chant said:
Sending an airstrike down on a car in an area with civilians to kill ONE man is illegal!
It doesn't matter that Hizbollah doesn't follow the R.O.E. It's still illegal!
Maybe you should start learning about what the term "illegal" actually means before you sling it around.
You don't know shit about war. Stop trying to fool other people into thinking you do.
Quote:
King Snarf said:
True, true. It's like the old saw that goes something like "Those who hunt monsters should take pains to ensure they do not become monsters themselves."
That's a paraphrase. Not the actual quote. It is, furthermore, totally inaccurate.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
King Snarf said:
True, true. It's like the old saw that goes something like "Those who hunt monsters should take pains to ensure they do not become monsters themselves."
That's a paraphrase. Not the actual quote. It is, furthermore, totally inaccurate.
Yes. Hence my use of the words "something like". And how, exactly, oh wise and mighty Pariah, is it innacurate?
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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If it's a paraphrase, don't use quotes.
The quote says that you run the risk of becoming a monster, not that you should take "great pains" to avoid it.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."
I just think it's funny how you try to pad everything with so little research.
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Whatever. You know the point I was trying to make. If you actually disagree with that statement, then say so and back up your argument. If you're just being a nitpicky little bitch... Wait, I forgot who I was talking to. OF COURSE you're being a nitpicky little bitch!
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Maybe you should start learning about what the term "illegal" actually means before you sling it around.
You don't know shit about war. Stop trying to fool other people into thinking you do.
And obviously you are the grand all-knowing expert on war 
Racks be to MisterJLA
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The International Committee of the Red Cross wants to visit the Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hizballah. (That’s what they do. And they get very upset if they’re not allowed to do it.) But oddly enough, the terrorist organization doesn’t seem to pay any attention to international humanitarian law: . The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said it had not received agreement so far to its request to visit two Israeli soldiers abducted by Hezbollah guerrillas.
“To this day we have not received a positive response,” said Pierre Kraehenbuehl, director of operations at the ICRC.
The approach to the Lebanese Shiite group was first when the soldiers were seized during a border attack on July 12, he told reporters.
The Geneva-based humanitarian agency carries out visits to detainees captured in conflicts worldwide, including in Israel, to ensure they are treated humanely.
Kraehenbuehl said the ICRC had also reminded Hezbollah of its obligation to ensure proper treatment of its prisoners. Terrorists not following international law. Go figure.
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 Holy Shiites, Batman! That's shocking!
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Captain Sammitch said:
Holy Shiites, Batman! That's shocking!
I agree with Sammidges sarcasm!
But International law still stands. The fact that terrorists don't follow the law doesn't mean that we shouldn't.
If you don't want to follow the laws you yourself becomes a terrorists.
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Yeah, it'd be like the President conducting illegal surveillance on U.S. citi... Ooops.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
All hail King Snarf!
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Quote:
Chant said:
And obviously you are the grand all-knowing expert on war
I know more about it than you do anyway.
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Chant said:
And obviously you are the grand all-knowing expert on war
I know more about it than you do anyway.
but of course you do
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
Pariah said:
Quote:
Chant said:
And obviously you are the grand all-knowing expert on war
I know more about it than you do anyway.
If you know so much, go enlist in the Army and impart your wisdom to them.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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I think the problem here is that you haven't paid any mind to the wisdom imparted to you from them.
It's not "illegal" to defend yourself. And even if it was dubbed "illegal," that still wouldn't mean anything, because the UN cannot tell a country that it can and cannot survive.
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So you're saying you don't support our Army?
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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This is all a red herring, since we're not dealing with what all relevant UN regulations define as legal combatants. Hezbollah may be native to Lebanon but they are under the flag of no nation or de facto government. The civilian casualties are a very unfortunate consequence (unless they were knowingly harboring Hezbollah, in which case they're not technically civilians), but nothing "illegal" has transpired.
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Moreover, it should be noted that Lebanon is tolerating the presence of Hezbollah. That means it's not only aiding and abetting terrorists, but it's also accessory to what Chant and Snarf would consider "illegal" actions. If they really want to hold society's expectations up to the ettiquete of association between whole countries, then they'd have to recognize the crimes of Lebanon.
Even cops in America are allowed to do raids if someone's giving shelter to criminals.
Quote:
King Snarf said:
So you're saying you don't support our Army?
Snarf goes for broke everyone.
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Hey, you're the one dodging questions here! I asked "Why don't you go into the Army" and you were all "Let's change the subject!"
Still, I can see why you'd do that. That whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing...
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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Quote:
King Snarf said:
Hey, you're the one dodging questions here! I asked "Why don't you go into the Army" and you were all "Let's change the subject!"
Still, I can see why you'd do that. That whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing...
You're not too bright are you:
Quote:
Pariah said:
I think the problem here is that you haven't paid any mind to the wisdom imparted to you from them.
"Them" being the ARMY.
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You still haven't answered why you haven't joined the army.
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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I don't see what that has to do with anything, but I tried and they didn't let me in.
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See! The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing! I knew it!
Knutreturns said: Spoken like the true Greatest RDCW Champ!
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So, you can't admit that you've lost the argument, thus you try to insult me.
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Quote:
Captain Sammitch said:
This is all a red herring, since we're not dealing with what all relevant UN regulations define as legal combatants. Hezbollah may be native to Lebanon but they are under the flag of no nation or de facto government. The civilian casualties are a very unfortunate consequence (unless they were knowingly harboring Hezbollah, in which case they're not technically civilians), but nothing "illegal" has transpired.
Now, if you'll pay notice to one of my earlier posts in this thread you'll see that I've got nothing against the destruction of Hizbollah. I believe I said "Good riddance"
And yes, defending one self is indeed a right everyone has, no question about it.
But it's still a fact that Israel has launched airstrikes against terrorists leaders and killed numerous civilians doing so.
Wasn't it your own founding fathers who something about it would be better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent?
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
Chant said:
But it's still a fact that Israel has launched airstrikes against terrorists leaders and killed numerous civilians doing so.
It's a sacrifice that needs to be made so as to protect themselves. They've repeatedly said that they don't like doing it, but they have no choice.
Also, review my previous post pointing out Lebanon's accessory to Hezbollah's terrorism so as to satisfy your expectations for an excuse to Isreal's actions.
Quote:
Wasn't it your own founding fathers who something about it would be better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent?
I don't think so, and even if it was, it wouldn't properly mesh with our current legal system. The law recognizes acceptable loss due to the fact that every system works off of empirical evidence and not absolute proof.
Not everyone is going to be fairly sentenced. The law knows and tolerates this because margin for error is a universal constant. There's no use ceasing the revolution of law just because mistakes can be made.
Last edited by Pariah; 2006-08-04 10:51 PM.
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Quote:
Chant said:
Wasn't it your own founding fathers who something about it would be better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent?
They were talking about the civil legal system, not war.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Chant said:
Wasn't it your own founding fathers who something about it would be better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent?
They were talking about the civil legal system, not war.
I'm aware of that, and you know that, or you should know that!
But it's still the same thing. You can't kill civilians and then say you had to do it because you were aiming at some bloke and they were in the way.
You find another way!
Racks be to MisterJLA
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Quote:
Chant said:
... it's still the same thing. You can't kill civilians and then say you had to do it because you were aiming at some bloke and they were in the way.
You find another way!
No, sadly, you don't. There hasn't been a war in history without some collateral damage.
It doesn't mean you deliberately TRY to kill civilians but it is going to happen.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Chant said:
... it's still the same thing. You can't kill civilians and then say you had to do it because you were aiming at some bloke and they were in the way.
You find another way!
No, sadly, you don't. There hasn't been a war in history without some collateral damage.
It doesn't mean you deliberately TRY to kill civilians but it is going to happen.
Has Israel pressed it to far though? Isn't there a growing danger that at this point their strategy is going to create more support for the guys their trying to take out?
Fair play!
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Chant said:
... it's still the same thing. You can't kill civilians and then say you had to do it because you were aiming at some bloke and they were in the way.
You find another way!
No, sadly, you don't. There hasn't been a war in history without some collateral damage.
It doesn't mean you deliberately TRY to kill civilians but it is going to happen.
I follow your reasoning, I really do! And quite honestly, I'd be the first to vote yes to send the greatest mother fucking NATO army down there and kill every single terrorist scumbag, Hamas too.
But Israel has inadverdently and non-deliberately killed alot of innocent people in this conflict. And that Hizbollah has done the same is no excuse.
You have to consider whether or not it's worth it and whether or not they're really gaining anything but making the situation worse
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I'd like to start off by saying both Pariah and Snarf are retarded. That said, I believe that the whole problem here is due to the world community not paying attention and the fact that the UN is a worthless body. Hezbollah was supposed to have been disarmed years ago. Had they been, we wouldn't be talking about this today. The fact isn't that Lebanon is supporting Hezbollah. Pariah is completely off base with that assumption (yeah, I know. Big surprise, huh? ) Lebanon couldn't disarm Hezbollah. It doesn't really have a military or the resources to devout to such a task. So, instead of the UN and the rest of the international communtiy doing something about it, they let Hezbollah grow with Syrian and Iranian help until it gets to where we are today. And unless the UN actually does something to disband Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, all a cease fire now is going to get us is a two or three year lull before this happens again.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet." Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Quote:
Chant said:
Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Chant said:
Wasn't it your own founding fathers who something about it would be better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish 1 innocent?
They were talking about the civil legal system, not war.
I'm aware of that, and you know that, or you should know that!
But it's still the same thing. You can't kill civilians and then say you had to do it because you were aiming at some bloke and they were in the way.
You find another way!
So tell me, what do you do? When the terrorists hug civilian sights, set up thier bases of opperations in an appartment building, set up road blocks barring civilians from leaving in order to create more of a meat shield for themselves. Do you say "ok" you win, do you stop fighting them because THEY put civilians in between you and themselves?
Putting the "fun" back in Fundamentalist Christian Dogma.
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Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Has Israel pressed it to far though? Isn't there a growing danger that at this point their strategy is going to create more support for the guys their trying to take out?
I don't think its possible for the average middle eastern country to become more anti-Semetic/anit-Israel.
Case in point: Iran and Iraq have been enemies for years. In the 1980s, when Iraq constructed a nuclear reactor to make an A-bomb--an A bomb that was as likely to be used against Iran as Iraq-- Israel blew it up.
You'd think Iran would have appreciated that, but instead they used it as another reason to declare that Israel had no right to exit.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Has Israel pressed it to far though? Isn't there a growing danger that at this point their strategy is going to create more support for the guys their trying to take out?
I don't think its possible for the average middle eastern country to become more anti-Semetic/anit-Israel.
Case in point: Iran and Iraq have been enemies for years. In the 1980s, when Iraq constructed a nuclear reactor to make an A-bomb--an A bomb that was as likely to be used against Iran as Iraq-- Israel blew it up.
You'd think Iran would have appreciated that, but instead they used it as another reason to declare that Israel had no right to exit.
You missunderstand, G-Man. I'm pretty sure MEM was refering to Democrats.
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Quote:
the G-man said:
Quote:
Matter-eater Man said:
Has Israel pressed it to far though? Isn't there a growing danger that at this point their strategy is going to create more support for the guys their trying to take out?
I don't think its possible for the average middle eastern country to become more anti-Semetic/anit-Israel.
...
If the middle eastern countries banded together things would get worse. To many dead arab kids could be like gasoline on an open fire.
Fair play!
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Quote:
wannabuyamonkey said:...
You missunderstand, G-Man. I'm pretty sure MEM was refering to Democrats.
Saying stuff like that WBAM isn't justified nor worth my response.
Fair play!
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