RKMBs Forums .::Robegories::. Sports and Wrestling Chris Benoit and family found dead

All that stuff is fake, correct? They all follow storylines and play a role...like soap operas, right?

If Chris had had a history of this kind of behaviour, if indeed its true, then with the media and internet the way it is, we would have known, so you have to assume it was something that caused him to snap rather than something ingrained into his personality.
Maybe his wife had threatened to leave him and take his son, and being the totally devoted father he was, he couldnt handle it, and in an act of uncontrollable rage, he committed this horrible act as the only way he could keep them.

Chris was certainly not mentally ill, but something obviously would have pushed him over the edge to do this.

Yeah, the fact that he did this (if indeed he did) doesn't make him a bad or evil person or make him any less of a man. It is highly probable he was suffering from a mental condition or something, and because of his private nature no one may have seen the symptoms as anything out of the usual. the fact is that he had apparently been sending weird and cryptic texts to his closest friends which is why the police showed up in the first place--so his friends knew his character well and noticed the sudden change.

I won't speculate on the exact occurrences, but he was probably been stricken with a mental/psychological breakdown of some type in the last few months and something triggered the actions as devastating and horrible as they were/are.

Thats the main thing.
Even if it is confirmed (which it still isnt), how all three died, unless there is some kind of note or something, then any reasons or exactly who did what, will never truly be known.

Had it simply been a case of Benoit killing his wife by accident or in a moment of rage then losing his sanity through grief?

Or, as Jaburg said, had it been Nancy who killed their son, and Chris then killed her in anger, before killing himself because he cannot live without his family?

Was someone else involved?

More info that might put this into more perspective.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-wrestlerdead&prov=ap&type=lgns

• Pro wrestler Chris Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his 7-year-old son and placed a Bible next to their bodies before hanging himself with the pulley of a weight machine, authorities said Tuesday.
  
  Nancy Benoit filed for a divorce in 2003, saying the couple's three-year marriage was irrevocably broken and alleging "cruel treatment."
  
  She later dropped the complaint, as well as a request for a restraining order in which she charged that the 5-foot-10, 220-pound Benoit had threatened her and had broken furniture in their home.
  
  In the divorce filing, she said Benoit made more than $500,000 a year as a professional wrestler and asked for permanent custody of Daniel and child support. In his response, Benoit sought joint custody.

....I also am not excusing the horrific act..i just can't see him knowingly doing it..the wife part maybe in a "roid rage" or something but not then premeditatedly killing his son a half day to day later--it doesn't make any sense, especially a bad or evil person. I think he was mentally damaged somehow at the time.

Benoit had a son with physical and possibly mental defects.

Fathers have aspirations and expectations for their sons, whom they view as the physical embodiement of their own hopes and dreams.

Benoit may have had dreams of his son as going into the family business someday.
All that was crushed when the son was born a less than perfect physical specimen.

Benoit may have been angry at his wife for not having the athletic son he had wanted.

edit for time-bastie


I don't pretend to know exactly why Benoit had murdered his family, I merely offer a possible explanation.

hold up hold up hold up. This statement keeps getting thrown out here and I don't see it: Where has anyone on here attempted to JUSTIFY his actions?

Where? We've put out things as information has come forth and suggested explanations and thoughts on why he might've done it, but where has anyone attempted to JUSTIFY it?

I could go a lot further about a lot of other things, but I'm really not in the mood.

As Diamond Dallas Page once said, "You can't fake gravity". You'd be surprised how real this fake sport can get. Tempers flare, and sometimes guys hit each other for real, and that's just for starters.

But, they script who's gonna win the matches. Writers determine who's going to win, not the two or more guys in the ring. That makes it fake to me.

You've just described about 90% of all entertainment, not to mention professional boxing.

Well said. Very well said.

Fair enough...I'll take what I read here from now on with your words on mind. I still don't get wrestling but I now I have a better understanding of why at least one fan enjoys it

Re: your last sentence...you betta not be talkin' 'bout me, cracka!!!

- District Attorney Scott Ballard was on Good Morning America today as well as on WTAM-1100 in Cleveland, discussing details of the tragedy. He's also been on Nancy Grace and Glenn Beck (CNN/HN) as well as other news outlets answering questions. On Beck's show, the host - like O'Reilly - suggested that Nancy Benoit was at fault for sticking with Chris Benoit and that her son's welfare should come first. Ballard noted that there were posters and action figures of his father in Daniel's bedroom, and that while they are still looking to confirm that there wasn't "a third party" involved, he is pretty sure this is indeed a double-murder/suicide as originally stated. Jack Singer, PHD, a sports psychologist, was also on the Beck show, saying that steroids combined with painkillers can lead to an "organic psychosis" which can last for weeks. "This was a psychotic rage, not a normal person who decided he was mad at his family," he said.

- On the Nancy Grace show, Bret Hart (who Grace put over huge as one of the best ever) was interviewed, saying that everyone that knew Chris didn't know him like this; "he was a real good loving man that was respected by everyone who knew him." Bret said that "I never saw him lose his temper, he was always someone that was very caring, he was a good guy ... any wrestler that I can think of anywhere loved this guy. If there was any sort of cry for help to any of these wrestlers they would have been there for him, including Vince McMahon I think." When asked about steroids, Bret said that when all the facts come out, this will be more about domestic issues than steroids, which Bret stated WWE clamped down on after Eddie Guerrero, and that the company has what he believes is a "legitimate and honest program" in place. He says that this is about "someone who had something eating at him inside that maybe nobody knew anything about" and went on to talk about how he knew Chris since he was 10, knew he would be a wrestler when he was 15, that Chris "worshipped wrestling" but put "too much pride in his (wrestling) character" and "one of the pitfalls of being a wrestler is you live the character 24 hours a day and it's hard to differentiate between" the wrestling character and real person.

- On the Fox News Channel, in another interview, Greta Van Susteren interviewed Bret Hart, who covered a lot of the ground already discussed. One new thing was Bret saying he spoke with Chris Benoit's other children, from a previous relationship. He said: "Well, they're hanging in there. They're a tough family and a strong family. I don't think anyone saw this coming. They're as confused by this as everyone else. [Benoit's oldest son is] trying to stay strong. I already spoke to Chris's sister. They are devastated by it, but they'll get through it."

- On MSNBC, Dan Abrams spoke with Road Warrior Animal (Joe Laurinaitis, brother of WWE head of talent relations John Laurinaitis). Joe tried to steer the discussion to talk about the issues inherent in the wrestling business other than steroids that could have led to behavior like Benoit's (and others who have died too young), such as workers not getting any time off, etc., but most of the interview was about steroids. According to a report of the appearance on PWTorch.com, when asked about "'roid rage," Joe said: "I've seen roid rage, and to me I think it's a crock what O'Reilly is doing to try to get these ratings and calling it roid rage. I've never seen a 48 hour roid rage. Most roid rages i've seen have been five minutes and then you apologize for blowing up. You're blood pressure is up and you're blowing a cork. I just think there are so many contributing factors... I've seen Chris with his son Daniel. Chris loved that little boy. There was something else psychological happening to have him flip out and blow his cork like that and do what he did."

- A Pulse Wrestling reader sent in these notes from an interview that took place last night (Tuesday) on sports radio 810 WHB, Kansas City, of former Byte This producer and RAW writer Chris "Big Country" Gough on with Dave Borchardt:

*Chris said that 80 percent of the guys in the lockerroom could've done this and it wouldn't have been too surprising, this however he said was stunning and would've never expected it from Benoit.

*Great guy, great family man. Always seemed to take pride in his family and that they were always exceptionally nice.

*Talked to some friends at the WWE and to say that everyone in the company was shaken up when they first heard about, would be an understatement. Apparently, as soon as everyone found out, the writers obviously didn't have the heart to write anything and were pushing for the CW to air a movie on Friday instead of having to write a Smackdown show.

*Thinks WWE has handled it very well and RAW was damned if you, damned if you don't. Clearly nobody thought that Benoit would've been a murderer, so they felt they were pretty safe airing a tribute just a couple hours after they found out.

*Said that while Benoit might not have tested positive on April 10th, you really have to fail a drug test pretty badly because Vince sets the bar pretty high for a positive test. (Which surprised me, because I thought Vince washed his hands of that and had the 3rd party do everything, including setting the rules.)

*Said all they test for is steriods, and HGH is not a part of the testing.

*Agrees with the WWE that it doesn't sound like 'roid rage, but with the media it's not going to matter to them. Believes the media will see it as If steriods, even legally, were there, it was 'roid rage. If steriods are present in the tox reports, no matter how small amount, the media will still believe its 'roid rage. No way to change their mind because it's the easiest excuse and answer for them.

These are a few what I thought to be the more obvious examples of attempts to justify Benoit's actions.

I know you're not, I'm just saying I don't see any attempts by anyone to justify what happened. we want to know, to understand, why a guy who had no previous history of these things that we were aware of would do something like this seemingly out of the blue.

and as events and pieces of knowledge trickle out, we start to put the pieces together and try to see what lead him down this road. we're attempting to put the pieces together to reconcile the heinous events of the weekend with what we knew of the man (which obviously was not as much as we believed we did).

yes, wrestlers play a role (often many roles throughout their careers), but the wrestling industry is a physical and mental grind that doesn't have a parallel in any other field. they're on the road constantly, over three hundred days a year with little to no time off and little time for their families. the abuse of painkillers and steroids to keep wrestlers going is rampant. wrestlers go out and abuse their bodies every single night in an effort to entertain their fans.

there's no off season. there's no medical insurance. there's no union. if a wrestler gets hurt, and has to take time off, they often lose their jobs and income.

the families that have been wrecked by the wrestling lifestyle are too numerous to count. many wrestlers have gotten caught up in their characters begin having trouble telling the difference between the roles they play and their own life. Randy Savage, Scott Hall, and Steve Austin are some of the better known examples of this.

there's also no shortage of wrestlers willing to backbite their contemporaries and run them down at every single turn. you'll hear stories about almost every wrestler and promoter in the business screwing someone over on some business deal or another, or not working to make their partner look good in the ring. but those types of stories never came up about Chris Benoit.

he was a hard working guy who always went out and gave everything he had in his matches. this is why he attracted followers. he came up in era when a lot of fans were tired of older wrestlers living off their reputations and doing more trash talking than actual wrestling. (yes, it's a show, but there comes a time when you have to deliver, and in the ring Benoit always delivered in spades)

but this is not really a case of identifying somebody with their onscreen character and being shocked about their actions because Benoit's onscreen character was a vicious sob. c'mon his nicknames were "Wolverine" and "Crippler". it's not like you associate those titles with a nice guy. these are more titles you would expect of someone who well. . .I don't think I need to finish this thought for you to grasp it.

but in all the glimpses we'd seen of him prior to this incident, he came off exactly as exactly that. he didn't talk shit about people, even when he had plenty of reason to. when an opponent was injured during a match with him (where he earned his Crippler name), he spent a great deal of time on the phone with their employer attempting to insure that the man would be okay and would be able to wrestle again. he spent time with children. he did charity work for the WWE organization. he went over to the middle east to wrestle in front of the troops stationed there. he always talked about his family and how much he cared for them. that's why this incident is so shocking to us and we can't understand it. because what we knew of his actual personality did not correspond to the character he often played.

all of these things, these glimpses behind the "mask", make wrestlers more human to the fans and thus more relatable. we can relate when they talk about working hard and being passed over and not being appreciated because it happens to us as well as them. which is something that Benoit and a lot of other wrestlers have all gone through and is the source of a lot of division among wrestling fans. you can dig through numerous discussions in this very forum and learn that.

so yeah, we're shocked. we're appalled. we're hurt, and sad, and confused and we want to understand why this guy would self-destruct in this manner and take his family with him. some of the statements you've quoted were made before all the information was known (and we still don't know all the information and we probably never will), but the posters that made those statements were sincere in their hopes that this incident was not what it has become.

hell, I'm sitting here writing all this out right now and I'm still hoping it's a really bad joke, you know?

some of us here have literally watched this guy perform for decades, growing up following his career. myself, I was a fan of wife as well and had a crush on her as a kid. when they got married (in real life), I was happy for them. when he won the world title and they embraced in the ring, with the kids surrounding them, I was happy for them again. (as a side note, I bought this particular dvd the day after my father died and watched it in the hopes of relieving some of my own pain).

so yeah, we want to know why this event occurred. we learn things we didn't previously know, and that filters into our understanding of the situation. the kid had a mental retardation that's known for being difficult to handle and causing family problems. the wife filed for divorce a few years ago, then reconciled. we get reports that he became paranoid and thought people were after his family. it's not too hard to extrapolate from these events that unbeknownst to us, there were problems and issues going on and it's possible that had people stepped in (or had he let people step in) that this could have been prevented. which just adds to the tragedy.

which is what this whole thing us. A huge fucking tragedy. we're not trying to justify it, but understand it, so we can better cope with it, and maybe take something away from it to better live our own lives.

that's what I have to say on the matter. that and I have no fucking patience for assholes who don't watch or care about wrestling and just want to stir shit up (you know who you are).

Bastie, you're about to really not like me.


Honestly, this seems like G-man level of reading incomprehension if you can actually read a post where I talk about Benoit's past of being accused of 'cruel treatment' and violence against the person he killed as me trying to 'justify' or 'excuse' his actions. There is a difference between an 'explanation' and 'justification'.

You've said that you don't like or follow wrestling. Then why are you wanting to take on the ones who do with a stance that comes off like you 'get it' more than them? It's not as simple as 'He killed his family and then himself'. The fact is that Benoit isn't the first wrestler to have a terrible violent episode or commit suicide, but he was the last one that anyone would think would do it. People here know the things beyond the 'character on TV' and are confused by this just as those Benoit knew personally are. I think most of us are also wanting to look at an issue involved in one of our interests that seems to be all too common lately, wrestlers dying young and going nuts. We're seeing this as something that needs to be investigated and addressed. Is it simply the case of Benoit being evil and killing his family? Or could there be other contributing factors like brain damage due to head trauma or a substance abuse problem, whether it be alcohol, painkillers, steroids, or other drugs? Is this a one time thing, or is it just the biggest in a noticeable trend of deteriorating sanity and control in a very demanding, and brutal industry?

Nah, doc...I still likes ya. Nobody makes s'mores quite like you.

It's not about comprehension for me. I was more about divining intentions. The quote from you, at first read seemed to be that you were using his past marital isssues as a possible reason/excuse/justification for his behavior. You wrote at the beginning:

"More info that might put this into perspective."

My interpretation of that line was this: Here's something that may be a reason why Chris did what he did. I did not click on the link and read the article. I don't know the context of the quote you lifted. If you'd posted the whole article, I probably wouldn't have read it. But...because you posted that little snippet that says Chris killed his wife, his kid and himself then goes on to mention he had marriage problems, my question is this: what does one have to do with the other unless the marriage problems are being used as mitigating circumstances to the murders?

Are the words yours? No. It's a quote. But you chose them to "put perspective" on the situation. Now, you are not required to explain yourself to me but, I'm just wondering how that quote made things clearer. Maybe it does for a fan of the guy but, not someone like me...who had no idea the guy existed before 3 days ago.

As far as me "taking on" you guys about this...honestly I'm just not that interested in the subject. I haven't looked at any of the video tributes or read any of the long testimonials some have posted to Benoit. I never read the wrestling stuff in this forum before now cuz I'm not interested. This case has my attention only because it's now a big mainstream story.

I'll often come to the boards and see what people have to say about things that I might otherwise have no interest in but, become big or exposed enough to hit my radar. This is no different. I just wanted to see what the opinions of wrestling fans was on this tragedy...that and it was 2:00 am and I didn't feel like looking for porn so I figured i'd read this stuff.

Seriously, I underestimated the level of devotion you guys have to this sport. It seems to me like it appraoches NASCAR levels of rabid fandom. You guys are really taking this hard and I am not shitting on anybody's grief. If you know me at all you should know that is not my style. I just can't relate. I'm a football and basketball fan. If this happened in the context of my favorite sports, I'd be shocked if say...Peyton Manning or LeBron James...were to do what Benoit did. But, I wouldn't have the level of grief that you guys do. I wouldn't be looking for reasons to explain the incident to myself.

I'd say something like "Damn, that's fucked up", Be riveted to the TV for a couple of hours and then go get a sandwich. My point is, it wouldn't affect me personally like this situation has affected you guys.

Grimm's post went a long way towards explaining the mindset of the fans here. I think I get where most of you are coming from now.

Once again, in case I didn't make it clear earlier:

NO DISRESPECT INTENDED. I'm just trying to understand why this is so important to you guys. I'm not trolling for trouble like yer boy, G-man.

I'm not that dude.

Web Time Stamps Indicate Benoit Death Reported About 14 Hours Before Police Found Bodies

Thursday , June 28, 2007
By Blane Bachelor


An anonymous user operating a computer traced to Stamford, Conn. — home to World Wrestling Entertainment — posted an entry to pro wrestler Chris Benoit's biography on Wikipedia.org announcing the death of his wife Nancy about 14 hours before police in suburban Atlanta said they found her body along with her husband's and that of their 7-year-old son, FOXNews.com has learned.

Employees at Wikipedia.com said the posting went live on their site on Monday at 12:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Police, however, said they found the bodies Monday at 2:30 p.m. EDT.

Wikipedia.org's computers are set to record Standard and Universal Time, a spokesman told FOXNews.com.

The posting reads: “Chris Benoit was replaced by [[Johnny Nitro]] for the ECW Championship match at Vengeance, as Benoit was not there due to personal issues, stemming from the death of his wife Nancy.”

The posting was apparently made in reference to Benoit's scheduled appearance on Sunday night at an Extreme Championship Wrestling event in Texas, with the last phrase noted in red to indicate an edit made to the original entry.

An employee from Wikipedia.org told FOXNews.com that he called and left a message with investigative authorities in Fayetteville, Ga., at around 11 a.m. EDT on Tuesday, after the posting was brought to the attention of the St. Petersburg, Fla.-based Web site.

“I chat with other editors on IRC -- Internet relay chat -- and somebody pointed it out to me on a relay chat and that it came from a Stamford connection, and that it took place at midnight Eastern Standard Time on Monday morning,” said Wikipedia.org volunteer coordinator Cary Bass. “I called and left a message with the police department.”

The computer-generated time and date stamp of the Benoit entry are listed as 4:01, 25 June 2007. Wikipedia.org lists its entries according to Universal Time, also known as Greenwich Mean Time.

A message left by FOXNews.com with Lt. Tommy Pope of the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department was not immediately returned.

Investigators so far have ruled the Benoit killings as a double homicide-suicide.

Wikipedia.org claims to be one of the largest reference Web sites, and is written collaboratively by users from around the world. Approved users can make submissions and change entries that are posted on the site almost immediately. Bass said the site is constantly monitored to correct inaccuracies.

Bass said when there is a high-profile case, such as the Benoit killlings, Wikipedia.org limits postings to registered users, which is now indicated at the top of the Benoit entry. According to the listed history on the Benoit entry, the computer used to post the 12:01 a.m. entry had a Stamford, Conn., Internet Protocol — or IP — address, a numeric designation that is assigned to every computer with an Internet connection, and that same address has been used to post about a dozen other messages on the site, dating back to May 16, 2007.

FOXNews.com also has learned, through widely posted Web reports, that former pro wrestler Sherri Martel, who was found dead on June 15, was linked to former wrestler Kevin Sullivan — ex-husband of Nancy Benoit.

Martel, who had a reputation as one of the top managers in pro wrestling, was found dead at her mother’s home in near Birmingham, Ala., on June 15. She was 49.

Investigators, who have not yet determined Martel's cause of death, say foul play is not suspected but that Martel did not die of natural causes.

Well, there's no need to wait until we have our heads wrapped around this, because I doubt that'll happen, so here it is. I know that a monster committed those terrible, unforgivable acts of horror. Just like everyone who knew Chris Benoit, I can't think of him as a monster. Not Chris.
Chris was truly a role model's role model. You simply had to respect him and admire his focus and unmatched discipline. If I ever got asked a question about who I looked up to the most in the business, you guessed it. That's me sharing a real feeling with you. Not talking about bull shit that I have little interest in, like who would I like most to wrestle with, or what's my favorite color, but who I actually looked up to in the dressing room. It's Chris Benoit- in the ring and in the dressing room and with his family.
The last time I talked to Chris, a few weeks ago, he told me how much he respected me for stepping away from the business. His message now comes to me from beyond. He said "Some of us don't know when to get out." I told him that I always held a little contempt for him telling me back in 1992 that I was a dumb-ass for wanting to quit WCW, and mentioned the irony.
Over the last several years, on overseas tours I'd always see Chris in the gym when the other guys were recovering from the night before. He'd train hard and sometimes I'd see him allowing young wrestlers to follow his lead and get a guaranteed killer workout. He took pride in what he did and set a great example for others, myself included, to follow.
How many murderers…baby murderers at that… are praised so highly by EVERYONE who knew them? This is all so bizarre and new information seems to come out every few hours but I can't imagine we'll ever understand what happened here. It appears that Chris took the answers with him. To tell you the honest truth, the easiest thing for me to believe at this moment is that if no frame work was involved, he was taken over by demonic energies with no compassion. I have to believe this is often the case with such inhumane acts.
Nancy, Daniel and Chris's tragic deaths obviously have affected a lot of people. Just remember, there's enough hate in this world. Hateful thoughts do not move us in the right direction, so make a conscious effort to remember that. It's important now and always.

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