RKMBs Forums .::Important::. Politics and Current Events In U.S. Name Count, Garcias Are Catching Up With Joneses

It beats typical conservative conjecture.

so conjecture with which you agree supersedes conjecture with which you disagree. gotcha.

Good.

Wonder Boy may be dissapointed:

A new study by the University of California’s School of Public Health finds that illegal immigrants do not pose as significant a burden on U.S. Health Care resources as is often claimed. Undocumented immigrants are less likely to have insurance, but seek out health care in much lower numbers:



The study is based on a 2003 survey of 42,044 people. Researchers compared the health care habits of U.S.-based Mexicans and Latinos and grouped the results according to citizenship or other status.

Among the other findings:

Undocumented Mexican and Latin American immigrants “are 50% less likely than U.S.-born Latinos to use hospital emergency rooms in California.”

Mexican Immigrants paid “1.6 fewer visits to doctors” per year than by those born in the U.S. to Mexican immigrants.

Other “undocumented Latinos had 2.1 fewer physician visits than their U.S.-born counterparts.”

Not only are undocumented immigrants not a burden on the U.S. health care system, but as Alexander N. Ortega, an associate professor at UCLA’s School of Public Health and the study’s lead author points out, they “seem to be underutilizing the system, given their health needs.”

Something tells me though that despite these facts, Wonder Boy will soon assert the very opposite again.

Now anyone that actually knows aNYTHING about the immigrant Mexican community (or just anyone who's ever heard a George Lopez comedy act) KNOWS that Mexicans do not go to the doctor. Too bad no one bothers to tell the xenophobe loudmouths who pull assertions out of their [whole cloth].

Not that I'm disputing anything there,but is an '03 study the most recent?That's almost 5 years ago.

well this one actually has more to do with the topic at hand..

Which goes to show that xenophobia isn't just relegated to the United States nor to people I dislike.

His arguments sound just as absurd and quite identical to others I've heard recently.

but as the article pointed out, he's been accused of racism before. The piece didn't mention his fixation with photos of skinhead youth that adorned his tour programme of one of his tours.

The Smiths are still a hell of a band though. Too bad Morrissey is hell bent on pissing his legacy away to ugliness.

The most ironic thing about all this is that when he was living in L.A. up the street from the Palladium, he enjoyed the support of the Latino population who by then and quite inexplicably become his most rabid and fervent audience here in Southern California.

I don't know what it was about his music, but it resonated with the kids of working class Latino immigrants in a way that no other British "alternative" postpunk bands did. I mean by the end of his touring life here, his concerts were comprised of about 85% Latino "greaser" (1950's rockabilly look, not the slur) kids.

Perhaps they tapped into the whole outsider angst he sang about or perhaps they identified with Morrissey's working class Manchester roots. Whatever it was, Morrissey sure pandered to that crowd with gusto and enthusiasm.

So I dunoo.. was it just that? Pandering to his bread and butter? Or is it that he doesn't mind immigration when it's not in 'HIS' country? Whatever the answer, these statements are quite disappointing.

So basically, anyone who has pride in their national identity, and doesn't wish to see it snuffed out in an overwhelming sea of foreign immigrants, who are not assimilating to British culture, immigrants who have no desire to assimilate, will be labelled by you, and other liberal slanderers like you, as "racists".

Nice.

But of course, his opinion, and that of many others who see their nations inundated, not simply by others of another race, but inundated by another culture, cannot possibly be acknowledged by liberals as a legitimate concern. Never mind that London is now less than 50% British-born, with a radical muslim population that makes no pretense about their wish to take the U.K. in a very islamic and un-British direction.

That part about skinheads at his concerts is so much slanderous excrement. He can't prevent skinheads from attending his concert any more than Arnold Swarzenneger could have prevented his father from being an SS officer. Limit your attacks to the man's own actions, not slander by association. I see Morrissey as a guy who loves his country and doesn't want to see it destroyed. I could disagree, no doubt, with some of his specific actions and remarks, but I wouldn't cloud the issue by diverting from that the guy simply loves his country, and wants what's best for his country and its people. His concern is legitimate.

London is well on its way to becoming Londonistan

There were little to no skinheads at the show I attended, dunderhead. READ carefully.....

I said the TOUR PROGRAMME.

And I think Morrissey has some control over it's content..

Maybe you and Morrissey can make a new country out in the arctic called Whitopia.

Again with the marxist tactic of repeating a slander endlessly to project as truth something you know to be false.



You know that I never called for a white-only America, or a cessation of all immigration except europeans. You know that's a lie, even as you type the words. I've only called for limiting immigration to what we can realistically assimilate as a nation. When we have millions of people in places like L.A., New Mexico, Texas and Miami who are not learning the language, who live here 10, 20 and 30 years and never bother to learn the language, who convert half the local channels on radio and television in their border areas to Spanish or other languages, then we have an assimilation problem.
It is not about race in any of my remarks, and liberal slanderers like you damn well know it.

And as I've said, since at least since former Mexican president Vicente Fox's period in office, he and members of his administration, people in the highest levels of the Mexican government, have been voicing a desire to take back the Southwestern United States through sheer immigration demographics, both legal and illegal immigrants. A rose by any other name is still "la Reconquista".

Aided and abetted by the current mayor of Los Angeles, who is likewise an unrepentant member of the ultra-racist/Mexican-nationalist MEChA, who does everything in his power to further undermine U.S. sovereignty, in the way of being a "sanctuary city" where illegals cannot be reported or asked about their illegal status.

La Raza is likewise a pro-Mexican-expansionist organization, and an umbrella front to any number of other radical mexican groups, such as Mexica Movement.

Go ahead and call me a paranoid racist a few more times. It's bullshit and you know it. The facts make this clear.

I'm a patriotic nationalist American, not a racist.
And you're just a lying cocksucker who undermines his own nation at every turn.

Ok, Wondy, since I grew up in the 1970's, when "assimilation" was the norm, I actually know a thing or two about this, so tell me, how exactly does one "assimilate"? How does the majority culture 'help' in the process?

I'd like your take since you're so eager to help and want people to "assimilate".

Oh, and my wife can attest to the fact that i don't suck cock.

Not that there's anything wrong with those who do....

Explain. Assimilation.




I'm living proof of that lie, you dimwit.

And if you don't like spanish language TV, DON'T WATCH IT. Do SAP signals during the Simpsons bug you too?



So when do I turn over the southwest to Vicente Fox?

Will there be an official ceremony?



You're paranoid and racist.



Yes. Yes it is bullshit.



Nationalist, xenophobic, paranoid delusional, bitter. etc. etc. And as I've aid repeatedly, if you think the liberals are undermining America and destroying it, you're time to act on it is fast dissipating. Take Arms my patriot!!!

If only so I can derive satisfaction of seeing you carted away to the loony bin on the national news.

In other news,...

last weeks Teen Titans # 53 had Blue Beetle undermining America by exclaiming " OH DOS MIO!" in this once most American of art forms.



It's been reported that at least one patron in a Florida comics shop nearly had a fit.

One assimilates by learning the language and adapting to the culture of the nation they chose to immigrate to.

I fully expect people to retain certain cultural elements of their homeland, such as traditions and food, and even pride in their heritage. But when they cliquishly remain a separate society apart from the larger nation, they present a danger of balkanization to our nation.
Starting around 1990, I started meeting a lot of foreign nationals, mostly from Europe: France, Spain, Germany, England, Poland, Italy, Yugoslavia, Rumania, Hungary, Czech, Russia, and others from Chile, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Guatamala, Costa Rica, Jamaica and elsewhere. Among the european girls, they leaned english very quickly, and several times I heard a girl start to talk in her native language, and one of her friends would say: "Speak english!" And they explained to me that they knew this was the best way to learn. That if they continued to speak in French or Spanish or whatever, that was time taken away from their learning and assimilating faster.
And that is the problem I'm seeing now: The pressure that was there is not as strong now. And increasingly less as hispanics, in particular, climb from 6% of the population (in the 1980s) to 15% presently, and toward 25% projected by 2050, if not sooner.


I've met many who have been in this country for 5, 7, or even 10 years or more who barely speak a word of english. They work jobs as cleaning people or assemblers, construction workers, or other jobs working for legal immigrants of their same nationality (enablers who hire cheap immigrant labor from their own country), and no doubt American employers who hire them as well.

They work in jobs that don't require english, they get medical care in doctor's offices such as the one I work in, who are forced to hire staff members who speak spanish, portuguese, Haitian creole, and so forth, to accomodate patients who have been here for years and don't know the language. Many are legal, and they still haven't bothered to learn the language. And why should they bother? Thanks to multiculturalism, they are not under pressure to assimilate.

In the day they work jobs that don't require english, and they are accomodated by medical offices, banks, restaurants, nightclubs and other businesses that likewise allow them to go on indefinitely here without learning english.

With many friends over the years, and many of the women I've dated, I've gained a window into how one can live illegally in the U.S.

I used to even accomodate many of the women I dated, speak spanish to them when they couldn't understand english, and even try to help them develop their english ability.
It was funny, because my friend Orlando from Argentina, not me, was the one who expressed disgust to me in 1998 when a Colombian girl I was dating had been here 7 years and still couldn't speak english. I found that ironic, that I, the American, wasn't offended by her lack of english, but he, a spanish-culture immigrant himself, was offended. It was one of the events that awakened me that my attitude toward immigrants was perhaps too liberal. That someone should at least speak functional english within 2 or 3 years of arrival.

I meet immigrants in a very high percentage of both my work and my daily personal business, many of whom I suspect of being here illegally.

The cashiers at my supermarket.
The employees at my bank.
My co-workers.
Our patients.
The lawyers and paralegals I interact with. The insurance claims employees. Roofers, construction workers, pressure cleaners, solicitors, restaurant hostesses and waiters. It's not like I live in some kind of white-only vaccuum, and don't talk to and listen to these people talk about how they come here and what their goals are. One girl I treated, in her late 30s, openly told me she was here illegally, and worked under the table as a maid, and was purchasing a house. But had to purchase it in nher sister's name, because she could not legally own a house here. Many of these people I like. But they're still here illegally. If I thought it would do any good, I'd report them.

The last lady who cut my hair was from Mexico, and from what she told me about illegal immigration, she as much as told me that she's here illegally, without coming out and saying it. She expressed great concern about a crackdown on illegals that would force her to return to Mexico. I listened to her views, as I do many others.

Throughout the 80's and 90's I had a much more sympathy for immigrants, both legal and illegal. But now increasingly take a harder, less sympathetic line.

The numbers are too high, and we are forced to accomodate them now, instead of the reverse. And I've watched the immigrant ratio climb to 50% in many parts of the country, including Dade and Broward counties. Very close to home indeed.

this xenophobic crap is so ridiculous. Language flows and changes over time, countries change over time. english is a borrowed language, most of our words are taken from other cultures and have little in common with our nordic/germanic roots.
immigration does not change a country as much as wondy thinks. in fact it adds to the richness of a country by bringing in fresh cultural ideas that keep a place from growing stagnant. it adds to the diversity of a place, which is a hallmark of America.

The train making travel faster and the country feel smaller, the telegraph/telephone making communication faster, the tv bringing entertainment from across the country into the living room, the internet connecting the world. these are all things that havetruly changed our country over time. This whole immigration debate has been going on since our founding in one form or another.
english people hated the new Irish coming in, there was the real fear that they were invading. same with every other ethnic group fearing a change in their neighborhoods. but the truth is these immigrants are not some grand conspiracy to expand mexico, it's just people trying to live better lives. wondy, you might get better results in life if you stopped living in fear and paranoia and just tried to live your life and accept the people around you for who they are. maybe those mexicans at work might not seem so anti-white if there wasn't a cranky old white guy staring at them like they're invaders.

and wondy if you're really so concerned for America then why don't you get mad about free speech zones, which is an afront to our tradition. why don't you get madder at bush who humiliates America daily with his poor speech (he abuses the english language more than any immigrant)? why don't you get pissed off at people being held without trial, which is in the constitution? why aren't you mad about the real threats?

The short answer is: fuck you!



The slightly longer answer is: as I've said, I didn't reach this opinion overnight. I previously had a much more open view of immigrants for decades, and if illegal immigration were contained and growing hispanic dominance were pushed back, I'd return to a more open attitude toward immigrants.

But while we're climbing from 15% toward 25% or higher hispanic population, and the clear push toward bilingualism, my concerns are clearly far from paranoid (Or to put it another way, please re-read the "fuck you" above.)

The mayor of Los Angeles and the the Mexican government are pushing for open borders and massive immigration, legal and illegal, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. And whether or not you personally endorse it, a thick percentage of Mexicans and other hispanics tried to shut down the country, protesting rights for illegals, waving Mexican flags, and openly expressing their contempt for this country.


And this is no longer the 1970s you grew up in, where there was much more pressure to assimilate, and the sheer volume of immigration was much lower. You grew up in a time when hispanics were 3 to 6% of the U.S. population (in the 1970s and 1980s).
It is not that mexicans are coming here that's the problem.
The problem is, as I said many times, the crime, drugs, imprisonment, their having the largest high-school dropout rate among all immigrant groups, their having the highest ratio of welfare use of all immigrant nationalities, and other highly quantifiable (not paranoid) demographics that can be traced over 4 decades since third-world immigration began, the lowest performing 30% of which is from Mexican immigrants.

Again: please re-read the fuck you above.

However you try to spin the numbers and pretend what's happening actually isn't, those are the cold hard facts. You can choose to mock and ridicule them, but they'll still remain the facts.

I agree with Wonderboy on this issue. If people wish to immigrate to another nation with another language and culture. Then we, the people of the nation they immigrate to are in our full right to expect (and downright demand) that they, as the people who wish to be a part of our nation learn our language, learn our culture to the extent that they at least accept it as the predominant one and don't feel threathened about it.

One the biggest problems with immigrants in Europe at the moment, is that the radical muslims are trying to incorporate the Sharia Law into national european law.

No, it is the immigrants who first and foremost most adapt to the nation, language and culture they immigrate to, and not we who must adapt to them.

Sure, it does go both ways. And I'm sure Wonderboy isn't lying when he says he fully expect immigrants to retain their traditions, religion and costums. But he is most definitely right that immigrants MUST be the first to adapt.

Take my own little backyard, Denmark. The problem here is that immigrants don't WANT to learn our language, they don't WANT to know what being danish means, they don't WANT to accept that Danish law and culture is predominant and that the Sharia Law has NO say whatsoever.

No, again, I'm sure Wonderboy feels the same way I do. If immigrants can't, or won't accept the culture, language and laws they've immigrated to, they can go home.

Forsooth!!!

You mean the U.S is not the end all and be all? The alpha and omega? That Jesus wasn't born here? That the English language isn't the vernacular of the Gods? THat the sun doesn't revolve around our nation?

Pfft!

Hubrous.

Your going going to hell Ray. Oh yes, your going to hell in a picnic basket with no food in it.*

*Pretty much the whole post is sarcasm. Although I was certain English was the language of the Gods. I guess I've read one to many comics.**

**Sarcasm was used.

what's hubrous? your confusing me!1

Wonder Boy, I know that you will just disavow everything I say because it's me and I'm the evil liberal boogeyman out to destroy America.

I was actually quite surprised and pleased to read the latest column by ultra right wing columnist Max Boot.

He quite deftly and expertly swats down most of your arguments without missing a beat. Now why he would do such a thing? I can only speculate. But as a guy who is a big shill for the Republican Party and the far right conservative POV, I can only guess that he sees this anti-immigration obsession as political hari-kari for the GOP and is actually trying to use his powers for good this time to prevent this.

Observe..




Ok, Wonder Boy, pay attention now...



But,..but, .. but.. I thought they spend decades, DECADES refusing, REFUSING to learn English!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Now what would cause Republican voters to get so riled up like Wonder Boy to the point where he's frothing at the mouth about "his" America being destroyed, armed with wildly inaccurate assertions and accusations?

An oldie but goodie reposted:

Back on topic: What [REALLY] scares Conservatives.



How convenient. I mean, nobody could have anticipated an influx of citizenship applications, right? I’m sure that it has nothing to do with the growing and changing Hispanic electorate. (/snark)



And there it is. It's not so much that they want to change the U.S.into Mexico, which is frankly bullshit, it's that they have the power and numbers to completely obliterate the Republican Party who inexplicably have alienated and angered Hispanics en masse repeatedly. They're in danger of transforming America all right. Into DEMOCRATIC country. And that sends shivers down the spines of the Pariah's and Wonder Boys the nation over. After all, how can you lob "anti-American" slanders when you're (even more than now)the most minor of minority views in the nation?

To Bush and Rove's credit, they saw the handwriting on the wall and tried to reach out to Latinos who were even a few years ago, still a decent percentage of the Republican base. But the far right wingers who fear "Mexicans", will alienate anyone, race bait anyone, just so long as it fires up the nativists and xenophobes and gets them to the polls. All to their detriment. Fitting I say. Goodbye far right wingers. Please provide more heated racial baiting and hatred. It's the best, fastest, and surest way to be rid of you all forever.

Every short term initiative, every election disenfranchisement scheme is just winning the battle but losing the war. And yes, I have to frame it that way because this is the way these people see it. A "war".

All the Hispanic community sees is a bunch of fucks who never distinguish legal over illegal, And American from 'white person'. And they've been repelled and disgusted, just as most Americans of the caucasian persuasion, most of whom don't happen to be paranoid racists, ALSO have been. The GOP in flames.



Writing in the Washington Post yesterday, former Bush Chief White House Speechwriter Michael Gerson described the changes in the Hispanic electorate this way:






In fact it's really tempting me to start a project I've been mulling over for quite some time, a door to door voter registration drive in some of the most underrepresented latino districts in the southwest. Where even if people are residents, you get the LEGAL citizen of that household (usually a voting age son or daughter) to be the voice of the family and get them to the polls to represent the entire family.

It would be monumental and seismic!

"Immigants. I knew it was them. Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them."

I'll be the only confused one around here thank you very much.

I never heard of the conservative columnist you quoted, Whomod.

But Fred Barnes and other conservatives have lipped the same arguments you quoted. I see that as the globalist/free-trade/open-borders/cheap labor for corporations wing of the Republican party.


As I pointed out before, I don't have a problem with legal immigration, so long as legal immigrants aren't enablers for illegal immigration. The problem is, many legal immigrants don't respect our laws, and therefore shouldn't be here. Enabling illegal immigration should warrant deportation and/or jail time.

The real key is not allowing as much immigration here as possible, it's fixing the problem that creates the need for mass immigration: passing legislation that is child-friendly, so that Americans here feel less burdened and more inclined to have children at replacement levels (as opposed to negative growth, as it is in the U.S., Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan.)


We allow in 1.2 million legal immigrants every year. I've worked with a lot of Brazilians, Colombians, Venezuelans, Argentinians, and Mexicans, in various medical offices, and meet many more in businesses, restaurants and night clubs I frequent. And virtually all of them look favorably on illegal immigration.
In the offices I've worked, I've had three Brazilian women ask me if I'd marry them so they could get papers to stay in the United States. And one Colombian girl I know through an associate suggested I could marry her sister to get her legal status in the United States.
Legal immigration is the ocean in which illegals swim.
It disgusts me how little respect they have for our immigration laws.

Buchanan rightly points out (as in the example of George W. Bush and Karl Rove's attempt to pander to hispanic voters) that no matter how much Republicans pander to hispanic voters by lowering immigration enforcement, hispanics remain loyal Democrats, no matter what.
So Republicans can't buy hispanic voters by turning their backs on illegal immigration. It just doesn't work. (Funny how you approve of this hispanic-pandering lack of enforcement by Bush and Rove, while you rail at everything else they've done)

Further, what you allege about assimilation of children of hispanic immigrants is at best a half-truth I've already dispoven.
Children of hispanics speak fluent english, but are statistically far less likely than other immigrant groups (asians, India, Middle easterners, Africans, Europeans) to graduate high school, and pursue higher education.
Further, as I said, Mexican immigrants favor open borders and dual citizenship with Mexico. So while they may speak english, Mexican immigrants still retain more of a "latino" vs."white" ethnic separatism and pride, that is a move toward balkanization and/or open borders over several decades.
And as I said, hispanic immigrant children are statistically 19 times more likely to join gangs than native-born americans.
And end up in prison.
And end up on welfare.
Until those numbers change for Mexican/central-American immigrants, until those problems are dealt with, I think we should be very selective about who we admit from those regions, and take more immigrants from nations that have proven statistically over 40 years to produce a higher ratio of productive, educated, assimilated immigrants (such as India, China, the Phillipines, South Korea, Canada and Europe)



Frankly, I'd like to see (like Hunter, Tancredo and Buchanan) a double fence along the entire U.S./Mexico border(such as has already been built along the 30 miles of San Diego/Tijuana border, that has been almost 100% effective in eliminating illegals, drugs, and related murders and crime in San Diego, and Tijuana. Unable to cross through San Diego, the've moved these illegal traffics over to the New Mexico border).
The fence is projected to more than pay for itself in the reduced illegals, reduced drugs, reduced crime, and reduced welfare-sponging "anchor babies" that such a fence would prevent.

More broadly, I would like to see a tripling of our border guard and INS, to fully contain illegal immigration. Fully contain the estimated 1 million who successfully enter our country illegally every year, cumulatively estimated to be about 20 million illegals here now.

Then I could live with the 1.2 million who enter our country legally every year. Which is still more immigrants welcomed annually into the U.S. than pretty much the rest of the world's nations combined.

But until we expect immigrants to respect our laws, they increasingly won't.

many natural born citizens don't respect our laws. for all the illegals in prison, there is still a majority of native born americans in jail. the bulk of immigrants (legal and illegal) come here for a chance at a better life. and not really for themselves but for their kids. they work their asses off in low paying shit jobs to provide enough for their family to allow their children to live the "american dream."
are there some who come here and break the law? of course. but there's always going to be a percentage that breaks the law in any group/class.
and that majority that just comes to work, work hard. they are part of our economy. and they just want something better in life.
as a christian i would think you could look upon them with sympathy and compassion. that you could have love for your fellow man and be happy that you are given freely what these people are willing to literally clean up shit to get a crack at.
what would Jesus do about illegal immigrants? what would he suggest you do? here's the point where you can be the good kind of christian who looks to make the world a better place and live by Jesus' message, or you can be the bad kind of christian who bitches about strangers and puts hatred and anger out in the world.

And that's a BAD Thing?

No, that's not what he did. In addition to making the same pro-business points you heard before, he also quoted studies that disprove your assertions that Hispanics don't assimilate into the US culture and have allegiances to their native country.




Among other things. you also say that you're uncomfortable with so many hispanics and fear that they're outnumbering whites.



Um.. that would require making a single household income sufficient to raise a family. Something the Republicans have consistently prevented from occurring. Either thru union busting or else attacking minimum wage and living wage hikes.




BASTARDS!

So do you grill them or something? In the nightclub and at work? It sounds almost as if you're some pollster.




Desperation disgusts you? And no, it's not a dig on you. Although it should be.... I've known lots of people in the same situation. you make it sound as if there is some callous disregard or soemthing rather than the desperate desire for opportunity.



I can provide the stats of Hispanic votes Bush received and how many defected since the anti-immigrant hysteria started if you like, but I think my last major post contained a quote on this. Honestly, I think you enjoy listening to people that bolster your xenophobia and you conveniently ignore the facts that clearly contradict everything you and your sources are asserting..




yeah. Funny that.






um.. didn't fellow conservative Max Boot already provide a study that calls that assertion baloney? BTW, Max Boot is a columnist for the LA Times as well as an advisor to John McCain's campaign at the moment.

Like I said, you stubbornly refuse to accept the facts of the matter and instead choose to repeat unsupported assertions from the likes of Pat Buchanan as if they had anything backing them up.

Incidentally, i recall reading a story about a real estate boom in Baja California by American retirees who emigrated to Mexico to make their retirement money stretch further. So despite enjoying the beautiful CHEAP coastal property in Mexico and despite being outsiders in that country, they refuse to learn the language and demand that they retain their dual citizenship. I dunoo.. I'm outraged.

i guess their non-whitness might infect white children. they might have authentic tortillas instead of American Taco Bell products.
That's communism or something. And Pat Buchanan wrote in his book about how brown kids absorb more light because their skin is darker and their hair is black...that's just science.

When we got lost on that German tangent a while back I was struck by the fact that the Germans did just what Wonder Boy fears the Mexicans are doing, destroying American culture.

What today, is considered more quintessentially American than Hamburgers and hot dogs?

And they're both German. Thank the large influx of German immigration for your slice of Americana, Wonder Boy. I dunoo.. I'm outraged and scared that America has been forever altered by those dirty Krauts! They've destroyed the REAL America forever!!!!! *

And in it's place inserted dirty Kraut food and even made our kids attend their shamelessly foreign "Kindergarten" thus indoctrinating our Children with their language and destroying America's true heritage forever!!!! *

Apple Pie? Immigrants.

Does Wonder Boy fear the day when Tacos, burritos, and Enchiladas will be the quintessential American dishes? When little girls will want a Quinceanera instead of a sweet 16 party? In Compton where I work, I hear black girls use that word all the time now. It's becoming mainstream even among non Latino's!!!

I think WB believes he can stop time and keep America in the wasp 50's forever where immigrants were 'assimilated' thru racism and forced to feel shame and dissaproval if they displayed any hint of their ethnicity and women and minorities knew their place.


It's just sad that Wonder Boy thinks America was created in some vacuum or descended from the WASP god himself and is a static unchanging constant.

* "kraut" being the common slur used for Nazi's I've read in comics code approved comic books. Since I'm sure WB will most likely go off for 2 paragraphs of how I've revealed my racism towards German's, I think i'll put this disclaimer asserting that I could give a rats ass about German's.

I hate Morrisey, but there is one thing he says in his comments that is true, and shows how stupid political correctness is.

In the USA, wearing a shirt (or whatever) with the US flag on it is considered patriotic, but over here, wearing a Union Jack (the British flag) or a George Cross (English flag), it can actually be considered racism by certain people.

Last year (or earlier this year, I forget as I hate football), England were in good shape in the world cup, and my company said the staff could wear England flags, but only if it was in areas that would not cause offence to locals.

Now correct me if I am wrong, but if you are from another country, and come to live in this country (or any country for that matter), surely you should accept the countries flag etc can be displayed by anyone.

I personally have no national pride, and am far from patriotic, but I do believe its my right, should I want, to express my nationality with the main symbol of the country.

That was a typo that got past me. Pardon my late-night typing.

It has been corrected to read:

Wow. This thread certainly blew up (primarily because of Whomod and his copy/paste fetish).



However true this may be, there's nothing that says we are required or obligated to help along the change. To make such immediate paradigm switches threatens the stability of the socio culture. Our system is based on English. Trying to force anything other than English down its throat will screw things up.

You're referring to gradualism, which is not the same as what's happening in our country right now.

Now i've already discussed this bullshit, but if you need yet another opinion, here's FOX news:





Could that be right??? I thought Buchanan said Hispanics have always been loyal Democrats??!!!

I'm soooo confused!!! If you can't trust Pat Buchanan's "facts" , who can you trust???



Y'know, I really hate obliterating your xenophobic preconceptions that are fed by the likes of Pat Buchanan with facts from the reality based community, um.. well, that's a lie actually.. I quite enjoy it. but it cuts to the heart of the matter. That you're armed with assertions that aren't supported by anything but xenophobic hatred, both yours and the people you choose to believe.

And just like the self fulfilling prophecy of Iraq being a haven and training ground for Al Qaeda that didn't occur until AFTER we listened to the discredited lies of the far right, Hispanics being uniformly consistent Democratic voters is a self fulfilling prophecy created by the likes of Lou Dobbs, Tom Tancredo, Pat Buchanan, Michelle Malkin and the rest of you haters.

Buchanan covered the half-truths you try to allege.

Cuban voters for 4 decades have trended conservative (since they had a clear aversion to leftist policies, living under Castro before arriving in the U.S.)
Younger Cubans, who didn't come from the same environment, and living in a U.S. with a now-much-larger hispanic population, now lean Democrat.

There was a slight increase in hispanic numbers for Bush in 2004. But there was clearly still much greater hispanic support of Democrats, despite the Bush/Rove outreach.
It proved that the Bush/Rove pandering to hispanics by not enforcing immigration was not going to turn hispanics into Republican voters in significant numbers.

What you allege about hispanic voting trends is disproven by many sources. The driving issue remains immigration for hispanics:

• 
  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292653,00.html
  
  http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/12/pew-hispanic-po.html

Hispanics have always trended Democrat. There was a slight uptick for Republicans among hispanic voters in the 1980s, then hispanics remained largely Democrat, and in the W. Bush elections(2000 and 2004), Bush managed 40% of hispanic voters, but still not a majority. And he did this by pandering and refusing to enforce border protection.
But even so, among hispanics earning more than 60,000 a year, their Republican numbers are growing.

I don't think border enforcement = "racism/xenophobia"
It equals border enforcement. And if anyone, particularly immigrants, have a problem with the U.S. protecting its borders, they should return to the foreign nation where their loyalty clearly remains.



A few more that detail the net detrimental effect of illegals on the U.S. :

• http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
  
  http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/SR9.cfm

To you, "xenophobia" is anyone who beleives in protecting our borders and keeping out illegals.
To me, a lying cocksucker is someone who maliciously calls someone who beleives in protecting our nation from invaders "xenophobic".


Over and over, I've made it clear that I enjoy interacting with other cultures, on pretty much a daily basis. I'm not some white supremacist who lives in some white-only enclave of Idaho or Montana, I live in a center of immigration, interact with both immigrants and foreign visitors every day, socialize with immigrants, and have twice considered marrying immigrant women.
Any attempt to label me as xenophobe or racist rings hollow.

I simply want immigration and border security that insures we have control of our borders, our immigrants, and our economy. Immigration that flows under prescribed levels that we can economically and safely absorb, so we can select who enters our nation, is good for the United States.

Immigration in a controlled flow, that doesn't amount to the invasion-level I've seen over the last 10 years.

If you think 20 million illegals (and increasing by roughly 1 million a year) is an acceptable number, then that speaks volumes. Of your anti-Americanism, not of anyone else's xenophobia or racism.



We allow 1.2 million legal immigrants into this country every year. There is absolutely no reason we should allow people who violate our laws to be here.

wondy, how much time do you waste in your day thinking about all the little things you fear? seems like a waste of time to live in fear of different cultures somehow polluting your view of a white man's utopia.
And Pat Buchanan and Anne Coulter are idiots. Just because you like them doesn't mean you can "prove" your point by quoting them.
It only proves that you're not the only moron in the world.