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Actually some people make points in footnotes, don't they?

the G-man #922674 2008-02-08 7:26 PM
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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Actually some people make points in footnotes, don't they?


Only if they feel their point has a leg to stand on.


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 Originally Posted By: Jason E. Perkins
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
 Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
I think you are gonna have to face facts that just as the way-liberal left is dieing so is the way-right conservative part of the Republican party. The Conservatism that you know from years ago (Neo Cons included) is dead. Long Live the Moderates!


The "way-left liberal" isn't dying. It is, in fact, what's killing off conservatism through every medium.

Though I'll agree that it isn't dying, I'll disagree that the leftist liberal end is winning through the media. Nothing about the media has changed since before Bush was reelected, and if the media didn't win anything then, it ain't winning it now.



I never thought the media changed when Bush was re-elected. I felt the media became vitriolically partisan at precisely the time Bush won the Nov 2000 election, and went on that way for 8 unrelenting years.

And I believe the sheer repetition of that vitriol is having its effect. From the repetitive inflammatory partisan remarks of Democrat Senators and Congressmen in Washington, to similar less-than-objective coverage by partisan liberal reporters and pundits, to the partisan venom of Mahr, Letterman, Moore, Olbermann and others.

Again, there are some valid points made about the clear failings of W.Bush and the NeoCons.

But it is so intermingled with slander, personal insults and wild conspiracy theories, that even though I was never an enthusiastic supporter of Bush, I often found myself rallying to the Republicans' defense, from the sheer bias and unfairness of the collective media's lack of objectivity, and outright viciousness.
And most of all, the media's knee-jerk reflexive anti-Americanism.

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wow.


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 Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
You've just shot your point in the foot dude.





points are ideas and therefore do not have feet.


When it's a figure of speech it does.

Like when a door's ajar.

Pariah #922715 2008-02-08 9:16 PM
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i went to school with Doors Ajar he was a nice muslim kid....

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Don't you mean Dorice Ajar?

Pariah #922722 2008-02-08 9:25 PM
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that was his sister.

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 Originally Posted By: britneyspearsatemyshorts
i went to school with Doors Ajar he was a nice muslim kid....


It's nice that you're opinion of him didn't hinge on what his religion was. I'd have expected you to slam him for it. Maybe you're not as closed-minded as I once suspected.


This is not vengeance. This is pun-ishment.

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 Originally Posted By: The Pun-isher
It's nice that you're opinion of him didn't hinge on what his religion was. I'd have expected you to slam him for it. Maybe you're not as closed-minded as I once suspected.


Perhaps such a supposition just lets us all know how closed-minded you yourself are.

And why the hell did you italisize "hinge," "slam," and "closed?" And why did you use a hyphen at the end of "closed?"

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doors


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FOX News Projects McCain Winning Virginia Republican Primary

McCain needs 1191 delegates, and with Virginia, CNN puts him at 783. He should get most of Maryland's 37 delegates, meaning that McCain should be past 800 by the end of the night.

the G-man #924696 2008-02-14 5:27 PM
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Romney Endorses McCain

No word on whether Romney plans to release his delegates. If he can, and does, pledge them to McCain, I would think that that would put McCain over or nearly over the top.

I'm curious to see how this plays out. But it is certainly a good show of party unity.

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Pariah #924698 2008-02-14 5:36 PM
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Current CNN count has McCain with 827 (801 pledged and 26 unpledged) and Romney with 286. That'd put McCain at 1113, just 78 shy of the 1191 needed.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mccain_romney
 Quote:
6 minutes ago

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Republican campaign dropout Mitt Romney agreed Thursday to endorse Sen. John McCain for the party's presidential nomination and ask his national convention delegates to swing behind the front-runner, according to officials familiar with the decision.
ADVERTISEMENT

Romney collected 280 delegates during his run through the early primaries and caucuses, enough to move McCain close to the total of 1,191 needed to clinch the nomination a full nine months before the November general election.

The officials who disclosed Romney's plans did so on condition of anonymity to avoid pre-empting a formal announcement later in the day. McCain was campaigning in Vermont and Rhode Island during the day, and added a flight to Boston to appear with Romney to accept the endorsement at his waterfront campaign headquarters.

McCain effectively sealed the nomination last week when Romney withdrew from the race; only former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and libertarian-leaning Texas Rep. Ron Paul remain but both lag McCain in delegates to the GOP's nominating convention this fall.

Romney's decision marked a harmonious end to an occasionally contentious struggle between the two men over the party's presidential nomination. They criticized one another in television ads in state after state, a clash that effectively ended on Feb. 5, when McCain won a string of big-state primaries from coast to coast.

Officials said the former Massachusetts governor made his decision to back McCain earlier in the day, citing a desire to help the Arizona senator wrap up the nomination before too much more time passed and while Democrats still did not have a nominee.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
thedoctor #924705 2008-02-14 5:53 PM
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Well, that seems to answer that question.

the G-man #925849 2008-02-19 5:32 AM
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Original President Bush backing McCain - and swiping at conservatives who attack McCain.

McCain seems to be gathering quite a bushel of support.







This is not vengeance. This is pun-ishment.

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 Originally Posted By: The Pun-isher
Original President Bush backing McCain - and swiping at conservatives who attack McCain.

McCain seems to be gathering quite a bushel of support.


The two areas where I like McCain are in (1) deficit reduction/reigning in congressional pork spending, and (2) knowledge and commitment to national security.


I strongly oppose him on (3) amnesty for illegals, and (4) making an even bigger mess of campaign finance with the McCain Feingold bill.


I'm still weighing whether I can vote for the guy. It's obvious that Clinton and Obama are even worse on (3) and (4), and utterly spineless on (1) and (2).


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You can always throw away your vote like you did last time.


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
rex #926057 2008-02-19 10:51 PM
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 Originally Posted By: rex
You can always throw away your vote like you did last time.


I didn't "throw away my vote", I voted for the lesser of two evils, choosing Bush over Kerry.

Kerry would have withdrawn from Iraq and left it to become a hub of terrorism, as opposed to implementing the successful "Surge" that Bush initiated. Kerry would have raised taxes, expanded spending, etc., and possibly further depressed the economy with those moves.

Bush has done a lot of things I haven't agreed with, as I've made clear in other topics, but in Iraq and the economy has had some success that he'll likely never get credit for.


And anyway, who are you to criticize my voting?
Who did you vote for?
Or were you just huddled in some dark corner inseminating a sock?


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So you lied when you said you voted for nader?


November 6th, 2012: Americas new Independence Day.
rex #926068 2008-02-20 12:14 AM
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I kind of have to agree with the sockfucker, at least to the extent that voting for third party candidates is, at best, a wasted vote.

But, rex, WB voted for Nader in 2000, which wasn't "last time". 2004 was "last time." So this is not about him lying as much as it's about your shitty reading skills.

the G-man #926083 2008-02-20 1:02 AM
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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
I kind of have to agree with the sockfucker, at least to the extent that voting for third party candidates is, at best, a wasted vote.


Only a person so trained by the two party system would think that. The people who vote for third party candidates do so because they believe in those candidates and their ideas. Let's not forget that the third party voters in 2000 almost changed the course of US politics. Had Nader received just 1% more of the popular vote, we'd have a bonafide third party in this country right now.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
thedoctor #926095 2008-02-20 1:19 AM
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No, that example only proves my point that it is "at best" a wasted vote.

In the two recent times voted for a third party effected the outcome, 2000 and 1992, the third-party votes had the perverse effect of actually electing a candidate to the White House who stood for more or less the OPPOSITE of what the third party voters wanted.

In 1992, Perot voters were generally much closer politically to the GOP, but they split the "conservative" vote and elected Clinton.

In 2000, Nader voters were generally much closer politically to the Democrats, but they split the "liberal" vote and elected Bush.

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But neither actually wanted the candidate from that party to win, or else they would have voted for them to begin with. It's the people who 'waste' their votes on third party candidates who will eventually break the two party system.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
thedoctor #926437 2008-02-21 5:45 PM
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I somehow doubt that, for example, there are a lot of Nader voters happy they helped elect Bush. But I could be wrong, maybe WB isn't the only one.

the G-man #926438 2008-02-21 5:50 PM
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N.Y. Times under fire for McCain story: Critics question paper's suggestion that McCain had an inappropriate relationship with female lobbyist.

As near as I can tell, the gist of the NY Times story was that a couple of staffers thought that McCain was having an affair <i>back 8-10 years ago</i> but there is no proof and McCain and the woman both denied it.

Not exactly a major scandal. And the fact that the Times sat on the story for months (if not years), until McCain became the frontrunner, does tend to look like another example of "Republican hunting."

Heh. If anything, it could help dispel the Democrat argument that McCain is "too old" to be president if it turns out that he's getting it on with a young blonde thirty years his junior.

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So the story is not that McCain had an inappropriate relationship with a lobbyist that may have been adulterous AND may have influenced decisions on chairs that he led in the Senate, it's that some right wingers are up in arms over it?

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
I somehow doubt that, for example, there are a lot of Nader voters happy they helped elect Bush. But I could be wrong, maybe WB isn't the only one.


But I do know people who voted for Nader who wouldn't have voted for Gore or Bush. The same with Perot. Sometimes a third party candidate might actually mobilize people to get out and vote when they would have normally stayed home.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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Actually, the "story" would appear to be as follows:

The allegations are eight years old and unproven.

The Times sat on the story for several months or years.

The New Republic (a liberal magazine) details that many editors at the Times were concerned that the story was not adequately documented to be published.

The Assocated Press reports that McCain's attorneys presented evidence to the Times to rebut the insinuations in the story but the Times chose not to include it in the article.

During the time period in which it sat on the story, the Times endorsed McCain for the GOP nomination, stating that "he has demonstrated that he has the character to stand on principle," among other things. That would further seem to demonstrate that the Times editorial board had little faith in this story.

Now, after McCain becomes the presumptive nominee, the Times sees fit to run a story that consists of nothing but denied allegations and the fact that some staffers had concerns about the relationship nearly a decade ago.

Eight year old unproven (if not disproven) allegations are news?

No wonder the story is less about the unproven suspicions and more about the timing and ethics of the New York Times.




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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Actually, the "story" would appear to be as follows:

The allegations are eight years old and unproven.

The Times sat on the story for several months or years.

The New Republic (a liberal magazine) details that many editors at the Times were concerned that the story was not adequately documented to be published.

The Assocated Press reports that McCain's attorneys presented evidence to the Times to rebut the insinuations in the story but the Times chose not to include it in the article.

During the time period in which it sat on the story, the Times endorsed McCain for the GOP nomination, stating that "he has demonstrated that he has the character to stand on principle," among other things. That would further seem to demonstrate that the Times editorial board had little faith in this story.

Now, after McCain becomes the presumptive nominee, the Times sees fit to run a story that consists of nothing but denied allegations and the fact that some staffers had concerns about the relationship nearly a decade ago.

Eight year old unproven (if not disproven) allegations are news?

No wonder the story is less about the unproven suspicions and more about the timing and ethics of the New York Times.

If what you say is true, then shame on those that published it. I just glanced at it at work & saw that it was backed up by the famous "unnamed sources" & figured it was a bunch of crap. Years ago this may not have had enough merit for a tabloid to run with.


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 Quote:
Rep. Renzi indicted on corruption charges

Republican Rep. Richard Renzi of Arizona was indicted on 35 criminal counts, including conspiracy, wire fraud, money laundering and official extortion stemming from land deals in his state, Justice Department officials said on Friday.

The indictment stemmed from plans by Renzi and an associate, a real estate investor, to benefit from a land-exchange deal in Arizona in return for Renzi’s support for necessary federal legislation, court documents said.






Renzi is a close ally of McCain’s, of course– birds of a feather– and is part of the McCain campaign leadership team. As soon as the long-anticipated indictment was handed down, McCain immediately took down the website page that mentions Renzi being on the team.

What a damaging week for the McCain campaign, huh? His three most “attractive” selling points — campaign finance reform, fierce anti-lobbyist stance, and support for the Glorious surge — are crumbling around him. First we learned he was positioning himself to game the FEC by using taxpayer money to bail out his campaign, then we learned about his ethically dubious relationship with a young, attractive female lobbyist, then we learned that Muqtada al-Sadr essentially controls the fate of Iraq when he (thankfully) agreed to continue abiding by the cease-fire. Saint McCain’s not even the nominee yet and his three strongest legs have been taken out in a matter of 72 hours. Should make for a fun 8 months.

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 Originally Posted By: whomod

Renzi is a close ally of McCain’s, of course– birds of a feather–


Hold on, if that's your standard I think you had better talk to MEM about that guy that Obama has been hanging out with (Rezko or something). MEM has been playing the "birds of a feather" card against Obama over that guy.

 Quote:
then we learned about his ethically dubious relationship with a young, attractive female lobbyist


Geez, not even the New York Times called the relationship "ethically dubious", did they? And all sorts of people have come out to discredit the story in any event.


 Quote:
then we learned that Muqtada al-Sadr essentially controls the fate of Iraq when he (thankfully) agreed to continue abiding by the cease-fire.


Um, yeah....and....? How is this tied to McCain other than in your dreams?

 Quote:
Should make for a fun eight months


Yeah, eight months of you getting pwned, quitting the board, coming back with an alt, getting outed, getting pwed, quitting, etc....

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 Originally Posted By: the G-man
 Originally Posted By: whomod

Renzi is a close ally of McCain’s, of course– birds of a feather–


Hold on, if that's your standard I think you had better talk to MEM about that guy that Obama has been hanging out with (Rezko or something).


Let's not forget about the Kennedys.


whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."
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 Originally Posted By: whomod

What a damaging week for the McCain campaign, huh?


Times article spurs cash surge for McCain campaign
  • Team McCain has parlayed The New York Times anonymous-source hit on the GOP front-runner into a cash bonanza.

    A campaign fund-raising letter ripping the "particularly disgusting" Times story and pleading with contributors to fight back "was the most successful to date," a top McCain aide said Friday.


Boy, a few more "damaging" weeks like this and McCain will win in a landslide.

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The first hole has appeared in John McCain's blanket denial of The New York Times' report that he was too close to a Washington lobbyist who represented, among other interest groups, a television mogul who wanted to buy a station in Pittsburgh.


 Quote:
McCain Disputed On 1999 Meeting

Broadcaster Recalls Urging FCC Contact

By James V. Grimaldi and Jeffrey H. Birnbaum
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, February 23, 2008; Page A01

Broadcaster Lowell "Bud" Paxson yesterday contradicted statements from Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign that the senator did not meet with Paxson or his lobbyist before sending two controversial letters to the Federal Communications Commission on Paxson's behalf.


Paxson said he talked with McCain in his Washington office several weeks before the Arizona Republican wrote the letters in 1999 to the FCC urging a rapid decision on Paxson's quest to acquire a Pittsburgh television station.

Paxson also recalled that his lobbyist, Vicki Iseman, likely attended the meeting in McCain's office and that Iseman helped arrange the meeting. "Was Vicki there? Probably," Paxson said in an interview with The Washington Post yesterday. "The woman was a professional. She was good. She could get us meetings."

The recollection of the now-retired Paxson conflicted with the account provided by the McCain campaign about the two letters at the center of a controversy about the senator's ties to Iseman, a partner at the lobbying firm of Alcalde & Fay.

The McCain campaign said Thursday that the senator had not met with Paxson or Iseman on the matter. "No representative of Paxson or Alcalde and Fay personally asked Senator McCain to send a letter to the FCC regarding this proceeding," the campaign said in a statement.

But Paxson said yesterday, "I remember going there to meet with him." He recalled that he told McCain: "You're head of the Commerce Committee. The FCC is not doing its job. I would love for you to write a letter."

McCain attorney Robert S. Bennett played down the contradiction between the campaign's written answer and Paxson's recollection.

"We understood that he [McCain] did not speak directly with him [Paxson]. Now it appears he did speak to him. What is the difference?" Bennett said. "McCain has never denied that Paxson asked for assistance from his office. It doesn't seem relevant whether the request got to him through Paxson or the staff. His letters to the FCC concerning the matter urged the commission to make up its mind. He did not ask the FCC to approve or deny the application. It's not that big a deal."

The Paxson deal, coming as McCain made his first run for the presidency, has posed a persistent problem for the senator. The deal raised embarrassing questions about his dealings with lobbyists at a time when he had assumed the role of an ethics champion and opponent of the influence of lobbyists.

The two letters he wrote to the FCC in 1999 while he was chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee produced a rash of criticism and a written rebuke from the then-FCC chairman, who called McCain's intervention "highly unusual." McCain had repeatedly used Paxson's corporate jet for his campaign and accepted campaign contributions from the broadcaster and his law firm.

McCain himself in a deposition in 2002 acknowledged talking to Paxson about the Pittsburgh sale. Asked what Paxson said in the conversation, McCain said that Paxson "had applied to purchase this station and that he wanted to purchase it. And that there had been a numerous year delay with the FCC reaching a decision. And he wanted their approval very bad for purposes of his business."

The deposition was taken in litigation over the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law filed by Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). The contradiction in the deposition was first reported by Newsweek yesterday afternoon.


So McCain himself in a deposition contradicted McCain at his news conference the other day.

I know based on your story that conservatives are rallying around McCain because the big bad "liberal media" wrote a story on McCain's ethics. But c'mon, that's to be expected. If the past 7 years taught us anything is that lies and malfeasance is something the conservative base has no problem with and even rewards.




whomod #926849 2008-02-23 7:30 PM
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 Originally Posted By: whomod

...McCain has never denied that Paxson asked for assistance from his office. It doesn't seem relevant whether the request got to him through Paxson or the staff. His letters to the FCC concerning the matter urged the commission to make up its mind. He did not ask the FCC to approve or deny the application....


But, darn it, he couldn't remember all the details of a ten year old conversation....better get a special prosecutor....

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some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?
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So much for the Straight talk express.

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Here's whomod back on 03/19/04 03:14 AM:

 Originally Posted By: whomod
I've mentioned my admiration and support of McCain several times in the past. And it really has little to do with his views or political positions (many of which I disagree with) but with his character.

With McCain, I sense a genuine integrity about the man. And his brand of Republicanism I see as political and not the quasi-religious fanaticism of the neocons who are positive they know everything there is to know about an issue and the only work is to try to force all data to support their conclusions.

I can see McCain working with the Democrats, i can see him working with our allies rather than belittling and bullying his way to his goals. And I can see him admiting errors, I can see him changing his opinions rather than trying to change the facts to suit him and I can see him give as well as take. In other words, i see a leader.


And, again, on 03/25/04 06:19 AM

 Originally Posted By: whomod
Now if you ran ...John McCain, i'd be running over to GOP campaign headquarters shouting HURRAH! an honest Republican ticket!!


And, more recently, on 01/17/08 04:51 AM:
 Originally Posted By: whomod
South Carolina is known for its dirty politics and no one knows more about that than Senator John McCain. He suffered despicable personal attacks ...It's despicable that this sort of thing happens to anyone. Especially someone like John MCain who served honorably and suffered for his country. It's just endemic of this attitude that opponents must be destroyed at all costs.


Now, with McCain all but the official Republican candidate for president, what does our friend whomod think of the good Senator now?

 Originally Posted By: whomod
McCain had an inappropriate relationship with a lobbyist that may have been adulterous AND may have influenced decisions on chairs that he led in the Senate...some right wingers are up in arms over it?


 Originally Posted By: whomod

What a damaging week for the McCain campaign, huh? His three most “attractive” selling points — campaign finance reform, fierce anti-lobbyist stance, and support for the Glorious surge — are crumbling around him...Saint McCain’s not even the nominee yet and his three strongest legs have been taken out in a matter of 72 hours. Should make for a fun 8 months.


 Originally Posted By: whomod
If the past 7 years taught us anything is that lies and malfeasance is something the conservative base has no problem with and even rewards.


Man, what a difference being a Republican nominee makes.

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