The problem is Hillary is right & is just stating the obvious. Obama wasn't able to win key swing states & voters that he'll need to win in a general. If the party is really interested in picking the candidate who has the best shot, it's something that needs to be looked at. I suppose my party will probably end up pretending that even though Obama outspent Hillary in states like PA & had plenty of time to win those votes that it doesn't matter because he has a padded pledged delegate lead with wins in red states that won't be wins in a general election.
I agree with you 100%, M E M.
Except that the Democrat Party doesn't have the nerve to pass over Obama and risk alienating black voters. Even if Obama gets eviscerated by another scandal before the DNC convention.
There's an article in a danish newspaper today about who is going to have the guts to tell Hillary that it's over, that her campaign have basically failed and that she's not going to be "El Presidente"
"El Presidente" is rather apt, considering the utter lack of resistance to invasion (the majority of which is from Mexico) in the immigration policies of Obama, Hillary, and even McCain.
The problem is Hillary is right & is just stating the obvious. Obama wasn't able to win key swing states & voters that he'll need to win in a general. If the party is really interested in picking the candidate who has the best shot, it's something that needs to be looked at. I suppose my party will probably end up pretending that even though Obama outspent Hillary in states like PA & had plenty of time to win those votes that it doesn't matter because he has a padded pledged delegate lead with wins in red states that won't be wins in a general election.
Would you like some cheese with that whine?
so your argument is that Obama is bad because he had more money to spend. Which I presume sprouted up magically and wasn't a byproduct of wider and more grass roots support than Hillary's old money.
As for tis "padded delegate lead", do you want to know what you sound like to me? Like the fucking DLC. Like the fucking jackass party bosses that ran the Democratic (*ahem* Wondy) Party before Howard Dean came around and stopped writing off "red states" as unwinnable and therefore not worth bothering to even try in. And that was why the Democrats racked up impressive losses for the better part of almost 2 decades.
Dean came along and started his 50 state strategy which brought about the ire of the Hillary supporters in the DLC like that asshole James Carville, Rahm Emmanuel, Joe Lieberman all of the Hillary advisers etc. etc. In other words the Repube-Lites that were inexplicably quite content to lose election after election so long as their little fiefdoms remained intact and the special interest money kept pouring in.
If this primary does nothing else, I hope it finally brings about an end to these fake Democrats who have hurt the party for much too long with their defeatist and losing strategies.
Hillary lost because she ran a crap, top down insider and rather dated pre-Dean campaign compared to Obama. The only people who seem to disagree are the people who still support Hillary and are furiously concocting excuses for her. The DLC democratic Party is dead, long live the party of Jefferson, Roosevelt and Kennedy.
I honestly think the best moment of this campaign was in how the voters last Tuesday soundly rejected Hillary's pandering to them, and frankly, insulting their intelligence by proposing the gas tax free summer.
It seemed like such an easy political move that was sure to pay dividends. Never mind that it would certainly not pass in Congress nor would there be enough time, even if there was support for it to pass it by summer nor would th President sign it. But there she was, promising free gas! And Obama was there making a dry policy argument and people actually stopped to listen and agreed with HIM!
That's pretty much unheard of in todays sound byte media (Hillary promises free gas! Obama says No!) and only goes to show what a different type of election season we're in now. It's a whole new type of electorate and it's a whole new ball game and the pandering and strategies of yesteryear aren't working today.
And this was the straw that broke Hillary's back. And as I said, it's insulting to people. Jut as lying to them about sniper fire was. I's playing on lowered expectations of the American public and expecting them to swallow a carefully managed campaign image and talking points.
Who knows, maybe she should have thrown in a free X-Box 360 along with the promise of a gas tax holiday.
This crap Hillary strategy goes back to the polling that showed that a majority of voters felt she only said what they wanted to hear and that she was untrustworthy. Couple that with people not being the stupid saps that Hillary's campaign thought they were and ding dong the wicked witch is dead.
I've already posted the TIME magazine list of the top five strategic mistakes Hillary Clinton made during her unsuccessful bid for the White House (to deafening silence from MEM BTW), and while in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter why she went from "inevitable" to "also-ran", there is one point in the article that deserves some attention:
Quote:
As aides looked over the campaign calendar, chief strategist Mark Penn confidently predicted that an early win in California would put her over the top because she would pick up all the state's 370 delegates. It sounded smart, but as every high school civics student now knows, Penn was wrong: Democrats, unlike the Republicans, apportion their delegates according to vote totals, rather than allowing any state to award them winner-take-all.
It should be noted that Penn denies the story, so we'll just have to take him at his word that he isn't that stupid. But if it's true it does raise the question, was this the stupidest thing said or done by a Clinton surrogate over the course of her campaign? Because Penn had some stiff competition. Who could forget:
* Geraldine Ferraro's claim that Obama has an unfair advantage because he was black.
* Bob Kerrey's happiness that Barack Hussein Obama attended a madrassa and had all that experience with Muslims.
* Billy Shaheen's concern over Obama's use of drugs and possible questions on whether he was ever a drug dealer.
* Andrew Cuoma saying that "You can't shuck and jive," in reference to Obama.
* And of course the First Surrogate, Bill Clinton, comparing Obama's win in South Carolina to Jesse Jackson's wins in the 1980's, and then being shocked at the suggestion that he was trying to paint Obama as "the black candidate."
Here's throwing Mark Penn a lifeline here and proving that he wasn't the worst of the Clinton surrogates. But still, Don't let that door hit all these people's asses on the way out.
I don't know how true this story is or not but I was laughing my ass off when I read it at Daily Kos's comments page.
Quote:
That one of the reasons Hillary's still in this is that she can't afford to drop out yet. She's always relied on big donors rather than the netroots and a lot of them gave her the "double max" donation; that is $2300 for the primaries and another $2300 for the general. Now, if'n she's not IN the general election she has to give the second $2,300 back, and she may well have spent it already. Which means she CAN'T give it back, so she bascially has to either get the Veep slot (and thus be legally entitled to the money) or basically try to get Obama to buy her off.
And while I would relegate to the tin-foil hat brigade normally; it actually matches some anecedotal evidence that came out a few month ago in the of Clinton Staffer Kathy Callhan's Diary on Blue Jersey on her oddessey to get Hillary's campaign to stop charging her credit card and return money for unauthorized tranasctions.
In this new context, particularly telling was the respose she got fromt he campaign before she filed a police report: ""Kathy Callahan, you are going to be with us all the way to the White House...So let's leave the money where it is and we'll save time on inevitable future donations and transactions!"
It's important to note that Ms. Callahan was already "double maxed" herself and they actually charged her another $1200 over that.
Three-way call: John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
it wasn't funny on the other thread and now seeing it posted again just makes you seem sad.
Your obsessive need to disagree with every post I make is just laughable.
It just reveals what a petty schmuck you are.
A few thousand people on YouTube disagree with you, and found it very funny. It's not like I created it myself, Ray. You're allowed to like it, and still be president of the Hate Wondy Revenge Squad of online stalkers.
There's an article in a danish newspaper today about who is going to have the guts to tell Hillary that it's over, that her campaign have basically failed and that she's not going to be "El Presidente"
"El Presidente" is rather apt, considering the utter lack of resistance to invasion (the majority of which is from Mexico) in the immigration policies of Obama, Hillary, and even McCain.
That was in no way what I meant. I merely stated that the article was saying that she's not going to be president, el presidente etc.
Ted Kennedy, the aging liberal lion of the Democratic Party, took a nasty bite out of Hillary Clinton Friday, saying she shouldn't be vice president because the job requires "real leadership."
"I don't think it's possible," Kennedy, a Barack Obama supporter, told Bloomberg Television when asked about an Obama-Clinton ticket.
Kennedy added that he hoped Obama would choose a running mate who is "in tune with his appeal for the nobler aspirations of the American people.
"And I think if we had real leadership - as we do with Barack Obama - in the number-two spot as well, it'd be enormously helpful," he added.
Ouch. Having your character attacked by Mr. Chappaquiddick. That's gotta hurt.
Ouch. Having your character attacked by Mr. Chappaquiddick. That's gotta hurt.
I'm just glad you didn't go with a fat joke. But at this point I think the Dems need Hillary like they need a hole in the head...and if there's one thing a Kennedy knows about, it's that.
There's an article in a danish newspaper today about who is going to have the guts to tell Hillary that it's over, that her campaign have basically failed and that she's not going to be "El Presidente"
"El Presidente" is rather apt, considering the utter lack of resistance to invasion (the majority of which is from Mexico) in the immigration policies of Obama, Hillary, and even McCain.
That was in no way what I meant. I merely stated that the article was saying that she's not going to be president, el presidente etc.
don't waste your breath. he makes everything about Mexico invading the US. He was probably dumped by some Mexican girl at some point.
There's an article in a danish newspaper today about who is going to have the guts to tell Hillary that it's over, that her campaign have basically failed and that she's not going to be "El Presidente"
"El Presidente" is rather apt, considering the utter lack of resistance to invasion (the majority of which is from Mexico) in the immigration policies of Obama, Hillary, and even McCain.
That was in no way what I meant. I merely stated that the article was saying that she's not going to be president, el presidente etc.
How about Generalissimo? The US president is Commander-in-Chief, after all.
"Batman is only meaningful as an answer to a world which in its basics is chaotic and in the hands of the wrong people, where no justice can be found. I think it's very suitable to our perception of the world's condition today... Batman embodies the will to resist evil" -Frank Miller
"Conan, what's the meaning of life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!" -Conan the Barbarian
"Well, yeah." -Jason E. Perkins
"If I had a dime for every time Pariah was right about something I'd owe twenty cents." -Ultimate Jaburg53
"Fair enough. I defer to your expertise." -Prometheus
Hillary Rodham Clinton may go on to West Virginia and Kentucky in hopes of proving she's a better candidate than Barack Obama, but at least one major national polling firm won't be paying attention.
Rasmussen Reports, which has been tracking the Democratic nomination daily for nearly two years, announced yesterday that it is dropping surveys of Clinton vs. Obama.
"It has become clear that Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee," Michael Boniello, Rasmussen's vice president, said in an e-mail yesterday.
The pollster will now focus on the potential general-election matchup of Obama against Republican John McCain.
Hillary Rodham Clinton may go on to West Virginia and Kentucky in hopes of proving she's a better candidate than Barack Obama, but at least one major national polling firm won't be paying attention.
Rasmussen Reports, which has been tracking the Democratic nomination daily for nearly two years, announced yesterday that it is dropping surveys of Clinton vs. Obama.
"It has become clear that Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee," Michael Boniello, Rasmussen's vice president, said in an e-mail yesterday.
The pollster will now focus on the potential general-election matchup of Obama against Republican John McCain.
But then agin, MEM never did respond to it. Just more nonsense about Hillary still being the winner. At least he isn't arguing that she's being asked to drop out because she's a woman. I suppose tomorrow it'll be because she's a WHITE woman.
Ted Kennedy, the aging liberal lion of the Democratic Party, took a nasty bite out of Hillary Clinton Friday, saying she shouldn't be vice president because the job requires "real leadership."
"I don't think it's possible," Kennedy, a Barack Obama supporter, told Bloomberg Television when asked about an Obama-Clinton ticket.
Kennedy added that he hoped Obama would choose a running mate who is "in tune with his appeal for the nobler aspirations of the American people.
"And I think if we had real leadership - as we do with Barack Obama - in the number-two spot as well, it'd be enormously helpful," he added.
This fress up Obama to tell her to go fuck herself without Hillary twisting it to be because she's a woman, white, a war hero or whatever.
There's an article in a danish newspaper today about who is going to have the guts to tell Hillary that it's over, that her campaign have basically failed and that she's not going to be "El Presidente"
"El Presidente" is rather apt, considering the utter lack of resistance to invasion (the majority of which is from Mexico) in the immigration policies of Obama, Hillary, and even McCain.
That was in no way what I meant. I merely stated that the article was saying that she's not going to be president, el presidente etc.
How about Generalissimo? The US president is Commander-in-Chief, after all.
There's an article in a danish newspaper today about who is going to have the guts to tell Hillary that it's over, that her campaign have basically failed and that she's not going to be "El Presidente"
"El Presidente" is rather apt, considering the utter lack of resistance to invasion (the majority of which is from Mexico) in the immigration policies of Obama, Hillary, and even McCain.
Originally Posted By: Chant
That was in no way what I meant. I merely stated that the article was saying that she's not going to be president, el presidente etc.
My apologies for any confusion, Chant.
I thought it was pretty clear that was my own added interpretation, and not yours. I don't want to imply that was your perspective.
I would like to see a near or complete moratorium on Mexican immigration for 20 years, until (and if) the current wave of immigrants is fully assimilated, as occurred after waves of German, Polish, Irish, Jewish, Italian, Russian and other waves of immigrants.
Unfortunately, none of the current three candidates manifest any backbone in that direction.
I would like to see a near or complete moratorium on Mexican immigration for 20 years, until (and if) the current wave of immigrants is fully assimilated
Is your neighbor playing the reggaeton music too loudly again?
The Clintons have never understood how to exit the stage gracefully.
Their repertoire has always been deficient in grace and class.....
I don’t know if Senator Obama can win the White House. No one knows. But to deliberately convey the idea that most white people — or most working-class white people — are unwilling to give an African-American candidate a fair hearing in a presidential election is a slur against whites.....
So class is not a Clinton forte....
The Clintons should be ashamed of themselves. But they long ago proved to the world that they have no shame.
Herbert really makes them out to look like a couple of rubes.
I wrote about how the media, since they called Texas for Hillary were completely unwilling to change that perception, even though eventually, after the caucuses, it was a split decision. Now that they've called the winner already, i don't expect them to reverse themselves and Hillary's refusal to step down will be seen as petulance and denial. Which in many quarters, is already happening. Too too many influential media have already written her off for her to somehow reverse this with more spin about her momentum from long ago expected wins in Tennessee and West Virginia.
There's an article in a danish newspaper today about who is going to have the guts to tell Hillary that it's over, that her campaign have basically failed and that she's not going to be "El Presidente"
Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
"El Presidente" is rather apt, considering the utter lack of resistance to invasion (the majority of which is from Mexico) in the immigration policies of Obama, Hillary, and even McCain.
Originally Posted By: Chant
That was in no way what I meant. I merely stated that the article was saying that she's not going to be president, el presidente etc.
Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
My apologies for any confusion, Chant.
I thought it was pretty clear that was my own added interpretation, and not yours. I don't want to imply that was your perspective.
I would like to see a near or complete moratorium on Mexican immigration for 20 years, until (and if) the current wave of immigrants is fully assimilated, as occurred after waves of German, Polish, Irish, Jewish, Italian, Russian and other waves of immigrants.
Unfortunately, none of the current three candidates manifest any backbone in that direction.
Originally Posted By: the G-man
Does this thread have to turn into yet another debate on immigration too?
I was only clarifying a separation of my opinion from Chant's, after raising it half-jokingly in wordplay on Chant's "El Presidente" remark, as a serious issue that has gone unaddressed in this campaign.
It's not my fault Whomod was such a troll cocksucker about it.
I honestly think the best moment of this campaign was in how the voters last Tuesday soundly rejected Hillary's pandering to them, and frankly, insulting their intelligence by proposing the gas tax free summer.
It seemed like such an easy political move that was sure to pay dividends. Never mind that it would certainly not pass in Congress nor would there be enough time, even if there was support for it to pass it by summer nor would th President sign it. But there she was, promising free gas! And Obama was there making a dry policy argument and people actually stopped to listen and agreed with HIM!
That's pretty much unheard of in todays sound byte media (Hillary promises free gas! Obama says No!) and only goes to show what a different type of election season we're in now. It's a whole new type of electorate and it's a whole new ball game and the pandering and strategies of yesteryear aren't working today.
And this was the straw that broke Hillary's back. And as I said, it's insulting to people. Jut as lying to them about sniper fire was. I's playing on lowered expectations of the American public and expecting them to swallow a carefully managed campaign image and talking points.
Who knows, maybe she should have thrown in a free X-Box 360 along with the promise of a gas tax holiday.
By a majority in Indiana voting for Hillary Clinton?
And a large black population in North Carolina voting their skin color, rather than selecting the best candidate? (in every Democrat state primary, 85% to 90% of blacks have voted for Obama, obviously simply because he's black). How very informed and progressive.
I honestly think the best moment of this campaign was in how the voters last Tuesday soundly rejected Hillary's pandering to them, and frankly, insulting their intelligence by proposing the gas tax free summer.
It seemed like such an easy political move that was sure to pay dividends. Never mind that it would certainly not pass in Congress nor would there be enough time, even if there was support for it to pass it by summer nor would th President sign it. But there she was, promising free gas! And Obama was there making a dry policy argument and people actually stopped to listen and agreed with HIM!
That's pretty much unheard of in todays sound byte media (Hillary promises free gas! Obama says No!) and only goes to show what a different type of election season we're in now. It's a whole new type of electorate and it's a whole new ball game and the pandering and strategies of yesteryear aren't working today.
And this was the straw that broke Hillary's back. And as I said, it's insulting to people. Jut as lying to them about sniper fire was. I's playing on lowered expectations of the American public and expecting them to swallow a carefully managed campaign image and talking points.
Who knows, maybe she should have thrown in a free X-Box 360 along with the promise of a gas tax holiday.
By a majority in Indiana voting for Hillary Clinton?
And a large black population in North Carolina voting their skin color, rather than selecting the best candidate? (in every Democrat state primary, 85% to 90% of blacks have voted for Obama, obviously simply because he's black). How very informend and progressive.
Yeah. By a razor thin majority that dwindled AFTER her little pandering gimmick. And you can shout from the rooftops abut Hillary's impressive wins, but that lousy 2% win in Indiana was enough to have everyone following this campaign to write her obituary.
As for the 2nd half. I'm not even going to touch that. I'll just say that Hillary Clinton is making that same type of argument in reverse. And it's just as ugly as you sound.
Yeah. By a razor thin majority that dwindled AFTER her little pandering gimmick. And you can shout from the rooftops abut Hillary's impressive wins, but that lousy 2% win in Indiana was enough to have everyone following this campaign to write her obituary.
As for the 2nd half. I'm not even going to touch that. I'll just say that Hillary Clinton is making that same type of argument in reverse. And it's just as ugly as you sound.
That's still a victory in Indiana for Hillary, and 2% more than Obama, *despite* Obama's spending 3 times as much in campaign dollars than Hillary to win the state was still unable to achieve victory for Obama. Like Hillary herself said, no amount spent by Obama seems to allow him to buy votes, and close the deal.
And West Virginia and Kentucky promise to be even greater wins for Hillary over Obama, of 20 to 30% margins.
I love your victim politics over the mere mention of black/white demographics. If 6 out of 10 white voters are voting for Hillary, and 9 out of 10 black voters in state after state are voting for Obama, you tell me which racial group is clearly the more racist.
Pointing out these statistics is not "racist". It's just pure and simple fact.
Polling on the gas tax seemed to break down close to 50/50. Hillary never portrayed it as a solution but just a little relief at the gas pump for the summer. Obama besides his money advantage also had a huge advantage with the media supporting him on this. For how many people I know that search for where gas is a couple of pennies cheaper I wouldn't be surprised if the gas tax thing is revisited again.
Ted Kennedy, the aging liberal lion of the Democratic Party, took a nasty bite out of Hillary Clinton Friday, saying she shouldn't be vice president because the job requires "real leadership."
"I don't think it's possible," Kennedy, a Barack Obama supporter, told Bloomberg Television when asked about an Obama-Clinton ticket.
Kennedy added that he hoped Obama would choose a running mate who is "in tune with his appeal for the nobler aspirations of the American people.
"And I think if we had real leadership - as we do with Barack Obama - in the number-two spot as well, it'd be enormously helpful," he added.
This fress up Obama to tell her to go fuck herself without Hillary twisting it to be because she's a woman, white, a war hero or whatever.
I was kind of wondering if this was a bit of coordination on their part. Obama talks about Hillary being on anyone's short list, a comment that on the one hand makes him looks contrite but it's vague enough so it's nothing he can be held to. Meanwhile Kennedy comes out with this toxic statement. Has Obama said anything publicly about Kennedy's comment?
It's almost sad. it's still a bit funny and somewhat frustrating that this diva can't bow out gracefully and that MEM can't sem to remove his head from her backside, but ...it's over, dude. ... [/quote]
If you understand the rules & the nomination process it's as Nancy Pelosi said...not over. Obama may be the likely nominee but there is still time & a couple of states where Hillary could win by some very large margins. Obama has not proven that he can win vital states the democrats need to carry in the general election. Hillary has though & I think that's why there's been this pressure to get her to drop out even before PA.
What I find truly sad is that you & other Obama supporters wanted the process to end once Obama started losing & you've just gotten meaner as it's continued. This is a competition for the most important elected position we have, neither is entitled to a premature corronation nor is it ultimatley healthy for the party for that to happen.
But if it's true it does raise the question, was this the stupidest thing said or done by a Clinton surrogate over the course of her campaign? Because Penn had some stiff competition. Who could forget:
