for the record it's funny how for the moveon.org types McClellan was a lying bastard, but now that he is towing their line he is credible....guess it shows you how willing they are to change horses in the middle of the race...
Actually if I recall, it was funny to "the moveOn types" when McLellan would be sent out with obvious talking points that he would repeat no matter what the question was. He sounded like a fucking broken record and it was obvious he was reciting prepared talking points and not actually responding candidly or honestly.
It was also funny that he was grilled for days on end by the press corps for having assured and promised them that Libby and Rove had nothing to do with the Plame leak (after having asked the nest of liars he trusted). I guess to me now, it's hysterical that the administration betrayed him like that. Blowbacks a bitch.
The Coalition of the Going strikes again. Tonga will no doubt step up. Maybe now you nitwit Republicans can rename anything with the word Australian into "Freedom".
Maybe Aussie shampoo can now be "Freedom" shampoo. Yeah, that'll show em!
NASSIRIYA, Iraq (Reuters) - About 500 Australian combat troops pulled out of their base in southern Iraq on Sunday, fulfilling an election promise by Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd to bring the soldiers home this year.
A British military spokesman in the southern city of Basra said the pullout from Talil base in Nassiriya was under way, but a spokesman for the governor of Dhi Qar province said it had been completed, with U.S. forces replacing the Australians.
"The Australian battle group is pulling out," the British military spokesman said.
Australia, a staunch U.S. ally, was one of the first countries to commit troops to the Iraq war. In addition to the combat troops, it also deployed aircraft and warships to the Gulf to protect Iraq's offshore oil platforms.
Since handing over security of Dhi Qar province to the Iraqis, the main role of the Australian battle group, numbering about 515 soldiers, has been to train and support Iraqi forces.
Rudd, who won elections last November, had promised to bring home frontline troops this year. Polls show 80 percent of Australians oppose the war.
Australia's top military commander, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, said in February that after the troops pulled out, Australia would leave behind two maritime surveillance aircraft and a warship helping patrol the oil platforms, as well as a small force of security and headquarters liaison troops.
The British military spokesman said Australian civilians training the police and advising the Iraqi government would also stay behind.
I found that figure to be interesting. 80% of Australians are against the Iraq war. I guess just like in this country, about a quarter of the population will always be gullible propaganda swallowing nincompoops.
Oh, and don't miss Scott McLellan tomorrow for a full hour on Hardball talking to Chris Mathews about how propaganda was used to sell this war, about how Bush authorized the leak of a CIA operatives name to get back at her husband who called Bush on his propaganda and many more surprises!
for the record it's funny how for the moveon.org types McClellan was a lying bastard, but now that he is towing their line he is credible....guess it shows you how willing they are to change horses in the middle of the race...
Actually if I recall, it was funny to "the moveOn types" when McLellan would be sent out with obvious talking points that he would repeat no matter what the question was. He sounded like a fucking broken record and it was obvious he was reciting prepared talking points and not actually responding candidly or honestly.
It was also funny that he was grilled for days on end by the press corps for having assured and promised them that Libby and Rove had nothing to do with the Plame leak (after having asked the nest of liars he trusted). I guess to me now, it's hysterical that the administration betrayed him like that. Blowbacks a bitch.
this is not the time to be frustrated bsams. Everything you ever asserted and believe in is crumbling down around you. In fact if anyone should be frustrated, it's you.
Doe sit frustrate you that no one in Australia want s to fight for Bush's lies anymore?
Does it frustrate you that the far right wing is being relegated back to the lunatic fringe where they used to reside back in the 1970's?
Doe sit frustrate you that most Americas think this war was unnecessary and a waste of lives and resources?
Does it frustrate you that most politicians who believe like you do are losing their seats left and right?
Now in light of all that, how on earth can I be frustrated?
this is not the time to be frustrated bsams. Everything you ever asserted and believe in is crumbling down around you. In fact if anyone should be frustrated, it's you.
Doe sit frustrate you that no one in Australia want s to fight for Bush's lies anymore?
Does it frustrate you that the far right wing is being relegated back to the lunatic fringe where they used to reside back in the 1970's?
Doe sit frustrate you that most Americas think this war was unnecessary and a waste of lives and resources?
Does it frustrate you that most politicians who believe like you do are losing their seats left and right?
Now in light of all that, how on earth can I be frustrated?
what politicians believe like me? name them? any of them? didnt think so.
it proves your frustrated. go back to being our bitch now.
Halo82 content User Haloveous 2000+ posts 06/01/08 07:55 PM Making a new reply Forum: Politics and Current Events Thread: Re: McClellan Is "Intrigued by" Obama
Halo82 content User Haloveous 2000+ posts 06/01/08 07:55 PM Making a new reply Forum: Politics and Current Events Thread: Re: McClellan Is "Intrigued by" Obama
People probaly could have figured out I was in this thread by looking at my response. I know you all are some of the dumbest assholes on earth but I didn't think you were that dumb.
Halo82 content User Haloveous 2000+ posts 06/01/08 07:55 PM Making a new reply Forum: Politics and Current Events Thread: Re: McClellan Is "Intrigued by" Obama
The only ones with ratings lower than President Bush are the Democrat leadership in Congress.
Only cause they haven't had the balls to unfuck everything Bush has fucked up. In terms of sheer hatred Bush is still more despised. I mean, who do you think will be remembered more Bush or Pelosi?
He was also on Hardball and O'Leiley who had a meltdown on camera. Apparently this book is for the "America haters". O'Leiley is soooo 2004 with his loaded words and catch phrases designed to stifle dissent and inquiry.
Quote:
O’Reilly: You said they used propaganda and that is a loaded word
McClellan: The White House Iraq group, the White House Iraq group was set up, it’s a marketing arm for selling the a war. That was a specific purpose that I talked about in the book
O’Reilly: Because they fervently believed that the guy was a danger and could hand his weapons off.
McClellan: No because the President had a bigger driving motivation which was to transform the middle east.
O’Reilly: You telling me that President Bush didn’t believe they had the,
McClellan: No, he did too. He believed that too.
O’Reilly:That’s not propaganda then, that’s not propaganda.
McClellan: It is when you package it all together—over sell it and over state it to the American people. That is propaganda.
Quote:
Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.
—Garth S. Jowett and Victoria O’Donnell, Propaganda and Persuasion
McLellan's book is a best seller too. Expect approval ratings or Bush to sink another 2 digit (i'm confident that one or two of these remaining 28%ers can re-enter reality and not think the majority of America, "hates" America). But more importantly, we can begin to ask McCain if he too still believes the propaganda that got us into the war in the 1st place. Since he seems dug into the Bush doctrine.
And some transcript from McLellan's appearance on Hardball:
Quote:
MATTHEWS: See, motivation. You say in the book that it came to you later, although I did realize it at the time. Sometime since the time you worked at the White House, you realized that the war was being fought under false pretenses, that the was really not about nuclear threats from Iraq or any other kind of threat militarily. It was really an ideological campaign to try to rebuild the Middle East along Democratic lines.
Some people realized that back at the time. What was your attitude towards those people? I was one of them. I was a small player, I admit. But I was one of those people that always thought this war was really geopolitical. It really wasn‘t about a weapons threat from a small country. What was your attitude towards, for example, Joe Wilson when he came back and wrote that article for the “New York Times?” He said, wait a minute, the vice president knew better. I got sent over because he raised the question about that nuclear arms deal, nuclear yellow cake deal in Niger. I knew that the White House wasn‘t being square on this.
Why were you so tough at the time on people that believe then what you now?
MCCLELLAN: We‘re caught up in the politics as war mentality. Those that were against us were viewed as our enemies. That‘s a destructive part of what the culture in Washington, D.C. right now. But we were out there seeking to discredit those who were criticizing us and questioning the intelligence. We now know in many ways, they were right about the intelligence.
MATTHEWS: Were you at a war with the CIA? I have information that the White House believed at the time that the CIA was leaking all over the place, blaming the war on the vice president‘s office, on the failure of Scooter Libby and the vice president to adequately convey to the American people the true nature or lack of it of any nuclear threat from Iraq. That was coming out from the CIA, obviously, going to Walter Pinkus, going to Kristoff and people like that. Did you at the time see not just the media as your enemy but the CIA as your enemy.
MCCLELLAN: There was certainly that attitude within the White House. There‘s an attitude that the CIA, the analysts, were trying to undermine the policy makers. I think in retrospect, looking back, when I reflected on that, we should have been listening more to what some of those doubters or dissenters were saying about the intelligence?
MATTHEWS: Yes, can you confirm that Karl Rove saw Valerie Wilson as fair game?
MCCLELLAN: I can‘t confirm that. I think that‘s actually something that you confirmed, if I remember correctly.
MATTHEWS: I‘m trying to get additional witness to this. Just to put it in context, you believe, as the press person for the White House, that the CIA was seen as the other side of this fight in terms of this press war and getting out the—winning the fault game.
MCCLELLAN: Well, some within the CIA, certainly those involved in that area, to some extent that was happening. I think—
MATTHEWS: And you have the vice president leading that fight in your book. You say he was the guy running the fight to discredit Joe Wilson and his wife.
MCCLELLAN: I think that‘s been pretty well documented. We‘re never going to know the full back story, I don‘t believe, because you‘re not going to hear anything from the vice president. You‘re certainly not going to hear anything from Scooter Libby now that he‘s been given a commutation and likely a pardon by the end of the administration.
MATTHEWS: Do you think he was promised all that when he went and lied about his conversation with Tim Russert about me? Do you think he knew he was going to get protection at the end and that‘s why he was willing to take the wrap for perjury and obstruction?
MCCLELLAN: I have no idea. Patrick Fitzgerald is the one that said that when Scooter Libby lawyers said that he was trying to put a cloud over the vice president, he said, no, Scooter Libby put the cloud over the vice president. We just don‘t know those facts and we‘re never going to. The vice president won‘t ever talk about this, I‘m sure.
On Libby and Valerie Plame:
Quote:
MATTHEWS: I‘m oddly impressed by this man and his loyalty. Let me ask you this, this is the key to your book, this atmosphere of permanent campaigning, we have to win, the other side has to lose. Did that contribute to his idea that he had to take this final fall, that he had to behave the way he did? It took the White House into criminality. Is there a connection?
MCCLELLAN: Probably. There probably is. He certainly viewed everybody on the outside that was criticizing us as enemies. That‘s the vice president‘s mentality. The vice president is very that way as well. I think it did reflect the top of vice president‘s office as well.
Damning damning and damning. When do the hearings start? It'll be interesting to see just who gladly swears under oath and who fights it tooth and nail.
He was also on Hardball and O'Leiley who had a meltdown on camera. Apparently this book is for the "America haters". O'Leiley is soooo 2004 with his loaded words and catch phrases designed to stifle dissent and inquiry.
Quote:
O’Reilly: You said they used propaganda and that is a loaded word
McClellan: The White House Iraq group, the White House Iraq group was set up, it’s a marketing arm for selling the a war. That was a specific purpose that I talked about in the book
O’Reilly: Because they fervently believed that the guy was a danger and could hand his weapons off.
McClellan: No because the President had a bigger driving motivation which was to transform the middle east.
O’Reilly: You telling me that President Bush didn’t believe they had the,
McClellan: No, he did too. He believed that too.
O’Reilly:That’s not propaganda then, that’s not propaganda.
McClellan: It is when you package it all together—over sell it and over state it to the American people. That is propaganda.
Quote:
Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.
—Garth S. Jowett and Victoria O’Donnell, Propaganda and Persuasion
McLellan's book is a best seller too. Expect approval ratings or Bush to sink another 2 digit (i'm confident that one or two of these remaining 28%ers can re-enter reality and not think the majority of America, "hates" America). But more importantly, we can begin to ask McCain if he too still believes the propaganda that got us into the war in the 1st place. Since he seems dug into the Bush doctrine.
And some transcript from McLellan's appearance on Hardball:
Quote:
MATTHEWS: See, motivation. You say in the book that it came to you later, although I did realize it at the time. Sometime since the time you worked at the White House, you realized that the war was being fought under false pretenses, that the was really not about nuclear threats from Iraq or any other kind of threat militarily. It was really an ideological campaign to try to rebuild the Middle East along Democratic lines.
Some people realized that back at the time. What was your attitude towards those people? I was one of them. I was a small player, I admit. But I was one of those people that always thought this war was really geopolitical. It really wasn‘t about a weapons threat from a small country. What was your attitude towards, for example, Joe Wilson when he came back and wrote that article for the “New York Times?” He said, wait a minute, the vice president knew better. I got sent over because he raised the question about that nuclear arms deal, nuclear yellow cake deal in Niger. I knew that the White House wasn‘t being square on this.
Why were you so tough at the time on people that believe then what you now?
MCCLELLAN: We‘re caught up in the politics as war mentality. Those that were against us were viewed as our enemies. That‘s a destructive part of what the culture in Washington, D.C. right now. But we were out there seeking to discredit those who were criticizing us and questioning the intelligence. We now know in many ways, they were right about the intelligence.
MATTHEWS: Were you at a war with the CIA? I have information that the White House believed at the time that the CIA was leaking all over the place, blaming the war on the vice president‘s office, on the failure of Scooter Libby and the vice president to adequately convey to the American people the true nature or lack of it of any nuclear threat from Iraq. That was coming out from the CIA, obviously, going to Walter Pinkus, going to Kristoff and people like that. Did you at the time see not just the media as your enemy but the CIA as your enemy.
MCCLELLAN: There was certainly that attitude within the White House. There‘s an attitude that the CIA, the analysts, were trying to undermine the policy makers. I think in retrospect, looking back, when I reflected on that, we should have been listening more to what some of those doubters or dissenters were saying about the intelligence?
MATTHEWS: Yes, can you confirm that Karl Rove saw Valerie Wilson as fair game?
MCCLELLAN: I can‘t confirm that. I think that‘s actually something that you confirmed, if I remember correctly.
MATTHEWS: I‘m trying to get additional witness to this. Just to put it in context, you believe, as the press person for the White House, that the CIA was seen as the other side of this fight in terms of this press war and getting out the—winning the fault game.
MCCLELLAN: Well, some within the CIA, certainly those involved in that area, to some extent that was happening. I think—
MATTHEWS: And you have the vice president leading that fight in your book. You say he was the guy running the fight to discredit Joe Wilson and his wife.
MCCLELLAN: I think that‘s been pretty well documented. We‘re never going to know the full back story, I don‘t believe, because you‘re not going to hear anything from the vice president. You‘re certainly not going to hear anything from Scooter Libby now that he‘s been given a commutation and likely a pardon by the end of the administration.
MATTHEWS: Do you think he was promised all that when he went and lied about his conversation with Tim Russert about me? Do you think he knew he was going to get protection at the end and that‘s why he was willing to take the wrap for perjury and obstruction?
MCCLELLAN: I have no idea. Patrick Fitzgerald is the one that said that when Scooter Libby lawyers said that he was trying to put a cloud over the vice president, he said, no, Scooter Libby put the cloud over the vice president. We just don‘t know those facts and we‘re never going to. The vice president won‘t ever talk about this, I‘m sure.
On Libby and Valerie Plame:
Quote:
MATTHEWS: I‘m oddly impressed by this man and his loyalty. Let me ask you this, this is the key to your book, this atmosphere of permanent campaigning, we have to win, the other side has to lose. Did that contribute to his idea that he had to take this final fall, that he had to behave the way he did? It took the White House into criminality. Is there a connection?
MCCLELLAN: Probably. There probably is. He certainly viewed everybody on the outside that was criticizing us as enemies. That‘s the vice president‘s mentality. The vice president is very that way as well. I think it did reflect the top of vice president‘s office as well.
Damning damning and damning. When do the hearings start? It'll be interesting to see just who gladly swears under oath and who fights it tooth and nail.
Nothing in McClellan's allegations is new. You dismissed McClellan as a hated liar for 7 years, and now that he's alleging things detrimental to the Bush administration, you've flipped 180 degrees and now hold his words up as gospel truth.
Nothing in McClellan's allegations is new. You dismissed McClellan as a hated liar for 7 years, and now that he's alleging things detrimental to the Bush administration, you've flipped 180 degrees and now hold his words up as gospel truth.
Y'know, McLellan has responded to this tack himself. Back when he was WH spokesman, he was repeating what they wanted him to say. And he was attacked for the words he said on behalf of the Administration. He, by his own admission, was furthering propaganda. And anyone paying attention knew that. He's only now acknowledging it and frankly, it's driving all of you who believed his prepared spin and believed the lie and bought into the frankly, Un-American notion that any critic of this administration and this war was an enemy of America, nuts.
Nothing in McClellan's allegations is new. You dismissed McClellan as a hated liar for 7 years, and now that he's alleging things detrimental to the Bush administration, you've flipped 180 degrees and now hold his words up as gospel truth.
I didn't know who McClellan was till his book came out.
The Senate Intelligence Committee finally issued its report on prewar intelligence during build up to the Iraq War -- and in the very nice language of the U.S. Senate -- the report confirms that Bush lied to the American people about the Iraq War:
Quote:
The Committee’s report cites several conclusions in which the Administration’s public statements were NOT supported by the intelligence. They include:
Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa’ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa’ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.
Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.
Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.
Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq’s chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community’s uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.
The Secretary of Defense’s statement that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried was not substantiated by available intelligence information.
The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.
Republican Senators fought very hard to prevent the release of this intel report back in 2004 to insure Bush's re-election. And, they wouldn't release this report back in 2006 to protect their own re-elections. All that delay has resulted in the release of this report in 2008 -- leaving John McCain to defend the Bush Iraq war agenda. In some ways, it was worth the wait.
And again, it's a report that Bush and the Republicans didn't want to see the light of day since it was at odds with all the bullshit they've been feeding their gullible sheeple. Well, the truth is out and again, all you guys were wrong.
A shame over 4000 American troops had to die for your guys' stupidity though.
The Senate Intelligence Committee finally issued its report on prewar intelligence during build up to the Iraq War -- and in the very nice language of the U.S. Senate -- the report confirms that Bush lied to the American people about the Iraq War:
Quote:
The Committee’s report cites several conclusions in which the Administration’s public statements were NOT supported by the intelligence. They include:
Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa’ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa’ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.
Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.
Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.
Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq’s chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community’s uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.
The Secretary of Defense’s statement that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried was not substantiated by available intelligence information.
The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.
Republican Senators fought very hard to prevent the release of this intel report back in 2004 to insure Bush's re-election. And, they wouldn't release this report back in 2006 to protect their own re-elections. All that delay has resulted in the release of this report in 2008 -- leaving John McCain to defend the Bush Iraq war agenda. In some ways, it was worth the wait.
And again, it's a report that Bush and the Republicans didn't want to see the light of day since it was at odds with all the bullshit they've been feeding their gullible sheeple. Well, the truth is out and again, all you guys were wrong.
A shame over 4000 American troops had to die for your guys' stupidity though.
A shame over 4000 American troops had to die for your guys' stupidity though.
Yes, ignore the estimated 300,000 Iraqis that Saddam had killed in his 24 year reign.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
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