It was a big mistake. Biden is a douchebag and has little to no appeal anywhere. I don't care either way honestly but this really helps McCain. Unless McCain goes and does something stupid with his pick.
I like Biden & out of the short list of who Obama was actually considering he was the best one. It's too bad that Hillary was never really under consideration. I have no doubt that if positions had been reversed she would have had him on the VP slot weeks ago. As it is, every Hillary supporter I know at best are not overly excited about voting in the general. This may well be looked at as the factor that cost Obama the election.
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
He should have put his ego aside and chose Hilary....they would have won easily.
No. She would have been the final nail in his coffin.
Outside of 'blue' states like NY and NJ a lot of (though, of course not all) people revile her. There are polls that say about 45% of the American people would not vote for her under any circumstance.
Furthermore, she ran such a negative campaign against Obama during the primary that all McCain would have had to do would be to run clips of her (and Bill) calling him inexperienced and whatnot.
You take Hillary out of her comfort zone (a liberal state and a soft media) and she starts to fall apart. That's why most Republicans were hoping she'd get the nomination and Rush Limbaugh was trying to throw rig the primary so she'd get the nomination.
I'm not saying Biden was a great choice either, but the idea that a lot of people have in the more urbanized and/or liberal areas of the country, that Hillary's some sort of uber-candidate, is simply not supported by the facts.
I like Biden & out of the short list of who Obama was actually considering he was the best one. It's too bad that Hillary was never really under consideration. I have no doubt that if positions had been reversed she would have had him on the VP slot weeks ago. As it is, every Hillary supporter I know at best are not overly excited about voting in the general. This may well be looked at as the factor that cost Obama the election.
please. it's very rare to pick for the general election someone who ran against them in the primaries. Hillary hurt any chances by saying Obama wasn't ready to be president. especially not when it gets as heated as it was between them. if she wanted the job then she, as the loser, was the one who needed to swallow her pride and campaign for his favor.
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
I feel differently. I hate her. I despise her. I think she is the devil. But a lot of people would have been intrigued by that ticket.
No doubt. But a lot more would have been repulsed.
I'm not saying you're her fan. But I am saying that NY and NJ overall has a fonder view of her than a lot of the rest of the country and that tends to make it look like she has support nationwide that isn't necessarily there.
And, as Ray pointed out, as the loser, she was the one that needed her swallow her pride, not Obama.
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
He should have put his ego aside and chose Hilary....they would have won easily.
No. She would have been the final nail in his coffin.
Outside of 'blue' states like NY and NJ a lot of (though, of course not all) people revile her. There are polls that say about 45% of the American people would not vote for her under any circumstance.
Furthermore, she ran such a negative campaign against Obama during the primary that all McCain would have had to do would be to run clips of her (and Bill) calling him inexperienced and whatnot.
You take Hillary out of her comfort zone (a liberal state and a soft media) and she starts to fall apart. That's why most Republicans were hoping she'd get the nomination and Rush Limbaugh was trying to throw rig the primary so she'd get the nomination.
I'm not saying Biden was a great choice either, but the idea that a lot of people have in the more urbanized and/or liberal areas of the country, that Hillary's some sort of uber-candidate, is simply not supported by the facts.
She received more votes than Obama & the primary ended with her winning huge in a bunch of states that are hardly liberal. This was after the pundrity had written her off for umpteenth time. By not picking Hillary, Obama has left alot of her supporters like me who don't mind McCain less than thrilled. We'll see what happens but I think McCain is going to be able to win over enough of the Hillary voters in November.
Originally Posted By: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
I like Biden & out of the short list of who Obama was actually considering he was the best one. It's too bad that Hillary was never really under consideration. I have no doubt that if positions had been reversed she would have had him on the VP slot weeks ago. As it is, every Hillary supporter I know at best are not overly excited about voting in the general. This may well be looked at as the factor that cost Obama the election.
please. it's very rare to pick for the general election someone who ran against them in the primaries. Hillary hurt any chances by saying Obama wasn't ready to be president. especially not when it gets as heated as it was between them. if she wanted the job then she, as the loser, was the one who needed to swallow her pride and campaign for his favor.
Ray she never said Obama wasn't ready to be President. She has been campaigning for him & even released a statement appluading Obama's VP pick. She'll be the first candidate in my lifetime who has gotten this close & not try to fight it out at the convention. That's about as gracious as you can get.
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
I feel differently. I hate her. I despise her. I think she is the devil. But a lot of people would have been intrigued by that ticket.
No doubt. But a lot more would have been repulsed.
I'm not saying you're her fan. But I am saying that NY and NJ overall has a fonder view of her than a lot of the rest of the country and that tends to make it look like she has support nationwide that isn't necessarily there.
And, as Ray pointed out, as the loser, she was the one that needed her swallow her pride, not Obama.
I hear what you're sayin g....either way I think he did us a favor picking Biden.
She received more votes than Obama & the primary ended with her winning huge in a bunch of states that are hardly liberal. This was after the pundrity had written her off for umpteenth time. By not picking Hillary, Obama has left alot of her supporters like me who don't mind McCain less than thrilled. We'll see what happens but I think McCain is going to be able to win over enough of the Hillary voters in November.
She received more votes in the primary, the voting that is done by people along party lines. That means that she did well with registered Dems. That's not a sign that she'd do well in the general. Just ask Dukakis. And I very seriously doubt that she would have chosen Obama for her VP.
Originally Posted By: Matter-eater Man
Ray she never said Obama wasn't ready to be President. She has been campaigning for him & even released a statement appluading Obama's VP pick. She'll be the first candidate in my lifetime who has gotten this close & not try to fight it out at the convention. That's about as gracious as you can get.
Do you not remember the 3 o'clock in the morning ad? Do you not remember her saying that she AND MCCAIN were better choices for president than Obama because he lacked experience? She may have been campaigning for him since conceding, but the things she said in the campaign for the nomination would make her too much of a liability as an actual running mate against McCain.
whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules. It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness. This is true both in politics and on the internet."
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
Originally Posted By: the G-man
Originally Posted By: The New Adventures of Old PJP
I feel differently. I hate her. I despise her. I think she is the devil. But a lot of people would have been intrigued by that ticket.
No doubt. But a lot more would have been repulsed.
I'm not saying you're her fan. But I am saying that NY and NJ overall has a fonder view of her than a lot of the rest of the country and that tends to make it look like she has support nationwide that isn't necessarily there.
And, as Ray pointed out, as the loser, she was the one that needed her swallow her pride, not Obama.
I hear what you're sayin g....either way I think he did us a favor picking Biden.
The funny thing is: in some ways I like Biden. Of the all the candidates he seems like the one I'd most want to hang out and have a beer with. And I think he's a decent guy.
But, in a lot of ways, he's the Dan Quayle of the Democrat Party. He makes gaffes that, coming from a Republican, would doom him:
His refreshingly unguarded bluntness also has been the source of some of the worst headaches in his latest failed attempt at the Democratic nomination.
In just the last primary alone, Biden's wild mouth managed to run him afoul of Indians, 7-Eleven clerks and African-Americans.
"You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking," he said with a C-SPAN camera just inches from his unbridled mouth.
Just a few months after apologizing his way out of that one, he "complimented" Obama and at the same time revealed a comically cliched and antiquated take on race in America.
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy," he enthused. "I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Ray she never said Obama wasn't ready to be President. She has been campaigning for him & even released a statement appluading Obama's VP pick. She'll be the first candidate in my lifetime who has gotten this close & not try to fight it out at the convention. That's about as gracious as you can get.
Do you not remember the 3 o'clock in the morning ad? Do you not remember her saying that she AND MCCAIN were better choices for president than Obama because he lacked experience? She may have been campaigning for him since conceding, but the things she said in the campaign for the nomination would make her too much of a liability as an actual running mate against McCain.
There is quite a difference between making the case that she had more experience than saying Obama didn't have enough experience. Your taking one thing and making it into another. She never said Obama didn't have enough experience to be President. If you have a quote that says otherwise please do share it.
She received more votes than Obama & the primary ended with her winning huge in a bunch of states that are hardly liberal. This was after the pundrity had written her off for umpteenth time. By not picking Hillary, Obama has left alot of her supporters like me who don't mind McCain less than thrilled. We'll see what happens but I think McCain is going to be able to win over enough of the Hillary voters in November.
She received more votes in the primary, the voting that is done by people along party lines. That means that she did well with registered Dems. That's not a sign that she'd do well in the general. Just ask Dukakis. And I very seriously doubt that she would have chosen Obama for her VP.
... It's a factor though & one that shouldn't have been dismissed in the way it was. I think there are quite a few more people that were really for Hillary than there ever was for Dukakis. As for a theoretical Obama as VP choice, yeah she would have put him on the ticket just for the simple fact that it was pretty clear that she probably wouldn't have won a general because of pissed off Obama supporters. It's probably what will cost Obama November.
Actually, my recollection is that Dukakis was a much more popular choice in the primaries than Hillary or Obama. He had a lot of support. And there were probably a lot of people thinking he had to choose Jesse Jackson to keep the black vote but, in the end, most blacks voted for Dukakis over Bush.
The thing you also have to remember is that, right or wrong, an Obama-Hillary ticket (or Hillary-Obama ticket) would have looked to some independents and moderates as "Affirmative Action in '08."
You'd have an inexperienced black guy and an only slightly more experienced woman who, let's be frank, got where she was by marrying well.
Actually, my recollection is that Dukakis was a much more popular choice in the primaries than Hillary or Obama. He had a lot of support. And there were probably a lot of people thinking he had to choose Jesse Jackson to keep the black vote but, in the end, most blacks voted for Dukakis over Bush.
The thing you also have to remember is that, right or wrong, an Obama-Hillary ticket (or Hillary-Obama ticket) would have looked to some independents and moderates as "Affirmative Action in '08."
You'd have an inexperienced black guy and an only slightly more experienced woman who, let's be frank, got where she was by marrying well.
McCain also married well the 2nd time too. At some point they both did more than just marry well to get where they have.
Historically Ronald Regan did pretty well with a guy that tore him apart in the primaries, GH Bush "Voodoo Economics". Biden is a good choice for Obama in the perception category from at least now he can unjustly claim he has the experience to lead by association with Biden. But honestly I think if he had chose Hilary it would have almost been a lock for him.
McCain also married well the 2nd time too. At some point they both did more than just marry well to get where they have.
Come on, there's a big difference.
Hillary is a smart person, don't get me wrong, but the only reason she got elected Senator in a state she didn't live in was because she married Bill.
Besides, not getting chosen is the best thing that could have happened to Hillary.
If Obama wins, she's still a powerful Senator and can negotiate a cabinet position or Supreme Court nomination.
If he loses she runs in 2012 she keeps fooling people into thinking it's because he didn't have her on the ticket and sets herself up to run against McCain in 2012.
This sets her up well, I'm fairly confident the more comes out about Obama's past the more shine that comes off him that this is McCain's to lose. With an incumbent with approval ratings as low as GW, this shouldn't even be close for the opposition, and it's neck and neck now.
Historically Ronald Regan did pretty well with a guy that tore him apart in the primaries, GH Bush "Voodoo Economics".
I think the big difference is that George HW Bush didn't also run around telling everybody that Jimmy Carter was a better qualified leader.
The problem both Hillary and Biden create for Obama is not just that they blasted him during the primaries but that they then turned around and said his opponent was the better man.
It's hard for Obama supporters to play the age card any longer, as their potential veep is all of six years younger than McCain.
The candidate of hope and change selected a running mate who was first elected to public office when Obama was 9 years old. He was elected to the Senate when Obama was 11. The bottom of the ticket running on change has been in Washington forever.
He voted for the Iraq War — which Obama touted as the most important decision since the end of the Cold War. He supports deploying U.S. troops to Darfur in Sudan.
Biden supports a ban on partial-birth abortion.
His mouth will be an absolute time bomb. Will he refer to Delaware as a "slave state" again? Will he discuss who's behind the counter at 7-11s?
I'm reminded of a Rudy Giuliani response when Biden took a shot at him — "Joe's a good guy, we all criticize each other during this time... But for Joe Biden to talk about qualifications — he's never run a city, he's never run a state, he's never run a business." That statement is true for both men on the Democratic ticket.
Other than Biden's mouth, it's a relatively safe pick. But since he'll be spending just about every waking moment between now and Election Day in front of television cameras... look out.
One last thought before bed: Imagine McCain picking Gov. Bobby Jindal. First line at the debate, "Senator, before we begin our debate, let me clarify for you that I don't work at a 7-11."
McCain also married well the 2nd time too. At some point they both did more than just marry well to get where they have.
Come on, there's a big difference.
Hillary is a smart person, don't get me wrong, but the only reason she got elected Senator in a state she didn't live in was because she married Bill.
Besides, not getting chosen is the best thing that could have happened to Hillary.
If Obama wins, she's still a powerful Senator and can negotiate a cabinet position or Supreme Court nomination.
If he loses she runs in 2012 she keeps fooling people into thinking it's because he didn't have her on the ticket and sets herself up to run against McCain in 2012.
G-man at this point I think you have to give her credit for more than just having the last name. There are plenty of people who have that & never got as far as she has. You can continue discounting those of us who are dissenchanted with Obama but it is a factor in play that the demacratic party may want to revisit if Obama loses in November.
Today Presidential candidate Barack Obama announced his selection of Senator Joe Biden as Vice Presidential running mate. Obama was greated immediately by Republican attack ads on Biden’s criticism of Obama’s experience.
There initially was some confusion as to his choice. The confusion came when Tipper Gore overheard Obama talking about his choice, she told a reporter that Obama said the choice “was a friend blew up a statue in the Capitol”. It was later learned he had actually said the choice “was a friend who blew up over at statute in the Capitol”. It quickly became clear, Barack had actually chosen Joe Biden and not Bill Ayers.
